(I hope I'm posting this in the right place.)
Here is something I am having a sincerely hard time "computing". Theory of mind. As defined by someone else here, it is:
"(Quick definition of "theory of mind": the concept that those around you think the same way, have the same wants, needs, desires, etc.)"
Autistics don't have "theory of mind". That I agree with. I don't have that and I still don't "see" that (for lack of a better word.)
But given the fact that my brain is wired differently from an NT in the way that it is which is part of the very proof that I am autistic, why would I need "theory of mind" when the truth is that others do NOT think the same way, have the same wants, needs, desires, etc. as I do.
If an NT DOES have all those same things as me, then wouldn't they also be autistic?
Anybody who can follow me here, please attempt to explain to me......seriously. Thanks.
Or.......is it because I do not have or apparently cannot understand theory of mind the reason behind why I state others do NOT think the same as me? (Man, this one truly is way beyond me.)
When I was little, it never occurred to me to compare myself with others as "like entities" with me in any way or not. It was just an "absent" thing. (I guess that shows again the no "theory of mind" thing. ?? I'm trying to process this intellectually somehow.)
So, I HAVE to learn and rely heavily on rules, etc., to regulate my behavior because of that lack. I "care", though, if I accidentally do hurt someone else or something, so I don't possess of lack of feeling at all. I "feel" emotions just fine.
Why is theory of mind necessary? What is it?
Are there any NT autism experts in the audience?
I've read up on Theory of Mind, and although the brief definition at the beginning of this thread is accurate in some regards, perhaps this will help:
The idea behind Theory of Mind is the ability to put yourself "in someone else's shoes". This will, theoretically, help in communication with others.
I'm an SLP. I've administered evaluations regarding theory of mind. The evaluation is very simple. One simply tells a story something like this:
Betty and Johnny are in the Park. They are playing on the swingset when they hear the sound of the ice cream cart coming toward them. Both immediately go to talk to Clark, the owner of the ice cream cart.
"Do you have Creamsicles back in stock?" asks Betty.
"Yes, I do," says Clark.
Betty fishes into her pocket and realizes that she left her money at home. "Where are you going to be later?"
"After I'm done in the Park, I'm going to the Community Center," replies Clark.
"Okay. I'll go home and get my money and meet you down at the Community Center," says Betty. She says good-bye to Johnny and promises to meet up with him later at the community center.
Johnny goes back home for lunch. On his way back down to the park, he runs into Clark. "Oh!" says Clark. "Are you going to see your friend? There's a big gathering happening down by the beach and I've been asked to go there to sell my ice cream instead of the Community Center."
Johnny nods and waves at Clark as he rolls his cart away. He walks to Betty's house. "I'm sorry, but Betty has left already," says Betty's mom.
Betty still really wants ice cream. Where does she go to get it?
Answer:
Since Betty has not run into Johnny yet, Betty believes that the ice cream cart is going to be at the Community Center. That's the information she received and has not received the updated information that Johnny received. Therefore she goes to the Community Center.
Many young people on the autism spectrum (under age 22) have trouble with this problem. The idea is to be able to put yourself in Betty's head for a minute and think what she is thinking, regardless of the accuracy of the information she has.
Does this help?
Oh dear.
An SLP is a Speech-Language Pathologist.
I did not mean any offense.
There are a lot of words you (ASDAdult) focused on in the exercise that were arbitrarily chosen. I will keep this in mind when I do this exercise again. I appreciate the feedback.
The purpose of the theory of mind test is to gauge specific social abilities of the person being tested. At least, that is the reason I administer this test. By no means would I consider this evaluation technique to be infallible.
For what it's worth, NTs are often quite wrong in their assumptions about how other people think and operate.
Yes! I'm seeing all the time how NTs have very silly social problems themselves; it's just that they happen to be social problems they've learned to recognize, tolerate and even expect.
At graduate school, we have a bunch of students from another city. So one of them sends an email to the entire group saying something along the lines of "so now they opened a São Paulo-style pizza parlor, we should go there". When people are gathering to go -- I never know if I'm implicitly invited to the group events or not; when I happen to stumble into the gathering groups I'm often explicitly invited in, and sometimes I even go along -- the plan starts to change to somewhere cheaper. The guy who had the idea originally arrives, and acts frustrated -- he wanted the group to know more about São Paulo-style pizza, while the Rio de Janeiro-grown girl who was leading the change in plans thought he just wanted to gather everyone for a social occasion. A strange, illogical discussion follows where emphasis seems to be in dispelling whatever notion there might be that bad emotions are floating around. After watching the show for a while, I leave the group and chuckle privately at the sheer lack of logic and proper social behaviour in the occasion. The guy from São Paulo and the girl from Rio had different plans for entirely different programs; why couldn't both be done in different days? An aspie -- like me -- could have easily solved that (if he wanted to speak up in first place, which I didn't, that day).
Oh boy, I'm feeling like my english is sub-par today. I'm tired, though it's been a good day for my ego.