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amadkiwi Wrote:

Quote:
In my opinion all humans of all intellectual capacity are worthy of respect until they behave in such an evil way that only a human being can.


What about if they are not capable of intellectual capacity? I really dont want to start this arguent up again, but I dont believe you can limit it to only those who can understand what respect is.

I think respect should be earned by everyone and everything, animals included. Animals earn respect because they survive in harsh environments, disabled people earn respect by living with their disability, and ordinary people earn respect by doing something worthy of respect. One of the things that irritates me is people that think they deserve respect, simply because they are who they are. Even though they have done nothing to deserve this respect, they still think they deserve it.


I should have said "any intellectual capacity," that should then encompass mentally disabled people.
I worked with learning disabilities & no one is without intellectual capacity, unless they are unconscious.

Louise18 Wrote:
No, obviously not. I have argued that academic achievement is necessary for an individual to be worth something. Not that it is sufficient.

So I may make the assumption that you forget to say all that you mean, or do you just change your mind according to circumstances?
If I had said " do you admire The Queen's Surgeon? " without giving you any further information, I'm pretty certain what your answer would have been.
This is what you said:-

Quote:
Louise18 Wrote:
I believe human's are defined by their achievements. If they contribute something to MIT academically, they have my respect. If they contribute nothing that could not be equally contributed by another they have not.


anbuend Wrote:
Note that I do have some personal insight into this, and am not just talking out my posterior:  My father worked in a research facility (see this (PDF) for an example of the sort of things they did).  He was a technician, not a researcher, but he and the others with his job designed and built the electronics, dug the ditches, hauled the test equipment around, etc.  And everyone in that whole place was necessary to keep it running, from the people doing purely manual labor to the cafeteria workers to the people doing skilled electronics work to the physicists at the top of the hierarchy who got the credit when the Nobel prizes got handed out.  But it was everyone who made it work, and they couldn't have done it without each other, and everyone there was more aware of that than Louise seems to be.  Scientific discoveries are not made by heroic individualistic supermen sitting around in vacuums, they're generally made by teams of people, most of whom work for little to no credit but who are nonetheless indispensable.  Without the rest of the team, the physicists would be sitting around unable to discover much of anything, and without the physicists, the rest of the team wouldn't be preparing for the right jobs, etc, it's a genuine interdependent relationship, theoretical and practical people working together.  And you'll notice the "acknowledgements" section of that article I linked to is huge -- for a reason.  Seriously, read through those two pages of acknowledgements and you'll get an idea of a fraction of how many people's work go into things like that.


anbuend, I had the same attitude as this during my nursing career, a domestic / porter is of equal importance to a Consultant Physician, without either the system cannot work.

Louise 18, I really truly pity you, if you carry on with this attitude you are going to be a very unhappy person.

As just paraphrased on another thread.

Intelligence / IQ is not important, it is what you do with it that matters.

Louise 18 is showing us what she can't do with hers.

Not really all that bright is she?

She will never be my equal or the equal of most others on this thread in my opinion.

Ian Wrote:
Most university students, in the UK anyway, end up in crippling debt and unemployed.


Unfortunately  for the students, you are very right.

Mahler5 Wrote:

Louise18 Wrote:
Oh and as for people who take on legal representation: criminals usually have no choice who they take as legal representation,  I have a lot of respect for people who build and run businesses, I have a lot of respect for people who have intellectual property to protect, andi have no intention of going into any area of law where my clients are less intelligent than me.


By your own argument-You would have to have clients who are less intelligent than you because otherwise YOU would be inferior intellectually to them, and therefore less worthy.
How will you know that they are less intelligent than you? Will you make them take an IQ test before you represent them?
How will you be able to judge and make an assessment of your client's intelligence?

Well said Mahler5

Also I would add, how would you know that your clients aren't criminals?
Oh yes:-

Louise18 Wrote:
I would get told about the crime before I found out about the achievement. The crime would be in every newspaper. The achievement somewhere in the smallprint.

Monkeys are nicerRolleyes

Have her if you really wantBig GrinBig Grin

Tigger_the_Wing Wrote:
Thank you Erkolos, I stand corrected.

Sorry Louise, I really should not have got carried away with the joking, it was unfair.

I agree Erkolos is right....sorry

Erkolos
I really admire you very much.  Smile

You are a wise & good person.  Smile

erkolos Wrote:

woman from mars Wrote:
Erkolos
I really admire you very much.  Smile

You are a wise & good person.  Smile

Gee thanks! I hope it isn't just because I show disagreement against a person who says things that are not politically correct.I am not good at giving compliments myself but I think people are writing great stuff at AFF.

No, not all, I see you as good, because despite the disagreements with Louise 18, you will still support her  ( and anyone else ) against what you said was bullying, you were right & I was wrong. I can admit that I am in the wrong, sometimes I need it to be pointed out to me. Smile
I believe that you are wise beyond your years because are able to see a bigger picture than me
.Smile

Louise18 Wrote:
I think this is probably what it is. People are always going to like and respect an individual who is automatically complimentary about them and everyone they are close to. Its human nature. It hasn't got anything to do with right or wrong. It has to do with people following their emotions.


Louise 18, please do not project your feelings & thoughts onto me, you do not have that right, if I felt that Erkolos, Tigger_the_Wing tenaciouscj & all of the others  who have posted on this thread were wrong I would say so.

Quote:
People are always going to like and respect an individual who is automatically complimentary about them

Most people who have manipulated me have behaved as you describe, therefore I would not automatically respect a compliment
I strongly  object to being tarred with your brush.

Tigger_the_Wing Wrote:

Big GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin

You (ex-cleaner) and I (ex-taxi driver and ex-postwoman) will be OK - Louise18 will be on the 'B' Ark. Wink

Hmmm not quite sure where I fit into this, But although I am a nurse, at one point due to serious money problems, I also worked in an abattoir (x two jobs), albeit packing bones & pigs ears , hosing down etc.  Big Grin

Does that count?
Can I come on the same Ark as you two? please???

Tigger_the_Wing Wrote:

woman from mars Wrote:

Hmmm not quite sure where I fit into this, But although I am a nurse, at one point due to serious money problems, I also worked in an abattoir (x two jobs), albeit packing bones & pigs ears , hosing down etc.  Big Grin

Does that count?
Can I come on the same Ark as you two? please???


Of course! Big Grin

Only people like television executives, lawyers and hairdressers got onto the 'B' Ark!


Oh thanks, I was a bit worried there, that I might be counted in with the evil professionals   Big GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin

Louise18 Wrote:
English law does not making hating people a crime. It does not make giving people your respect, time or energy (excluding your own children) an obligation. I do not abuse anyone. I just don't respect people I am better than. That is not a crime, or a civil wrong in english law.


Louise18...you tell us that you study law.

Quote:
England and Wales

In England and Wales criminal actions are considered hate crimes if they are perceived by the victim as being motivated by prejudice and hatred. Hate crimes may be physical attack, verbal attack, threats or insults and will be considered a hate crime if they are motivated by the victims race, colour, ethnic origin, nationality or national origins, religion, gender or gender identity, sexual orientation or disability.

Therefore, should a 'pet monkey' or his / her relatives read your remarks & they take offense, you have committed a crime.
AND:-

Quote:
Hate e-mail and text messages to be banned by English law

OUT-LAW News, 22/02/2001
Amendments to proposed English legislation will make it an offence to send hate mail by post or electronic means. They will be contained in the new Criminal Justice and Police Bill and amendments to Malicious Communications Act of 1988.

Amendments will be tabled today to the Criminal Justice and Police Bill. The Malicious Communications Act of 1988 will also be amended.


I may be wrong & I am willing to stand corrected, but I'm pretty certain that the internet is "electronic means."

erkolos Wrote:
I hoped someone would follow my example and not give Louise any attention/"oxygen".

Another reason for me to believe that you are wise.Smile

Tigger_the_Wing Wrote:

Max the Bear Wrote:

Louise18 Wrote:

... my remarks are not motivated by disability but by stupidity.


And on that, I believe, we can all agree.


Big GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin

Sorry Erkolos,Big GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin

Louise18 Wrote:
Also, it would depend on the interpretation of an 'insult'. Courts would be unlikely to take a broad meaning as they tend not to include in criminal liability anything which parliament may not have intended to incur criminal liability.


Louise18 Wrote:
Oh and incidentally, even if you are right about insulting being a crime. It still isn't a crime to hate someone, or to withold your respect from them. I really wish someone would put an edit button on this site. It would save a lot of double posting and confusion.


Louise18 Wrote:
You see even that post was wrongly worded. It should have read even if you are right about some of my posts in this thread constituting an insult.

oooops I pressed post instead of review.


I intended to add that Louise 18 doesn't appear at all certain of the Law. since first I was wrong & then "even if you're right.

Quote:
In England and Wales criminal actions are considered hate crimes if they are perceived by the victim as being motivated by prejudice and hatred..........threats or insults...............or disability.

The 'Pet Monkeys' are disabled under The Law...........The Disability Discrimination Act

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