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Quote:
I believe that are there are 4 possible purposes to human existence. 1) Personal happiness 2) Maximising the happiness of others 3) Personal Achievement (as in knowledge) 4) The advancement of society's aggregate achievements 5)The pursuit of Justice. It is also possible that there is no point to life and nothing that we do matters at all.


Ok young lady lets start with the 'I believe'.

You are, of course, entitled to believe anything you want to. Freedom of thought. You are not entitled to assume your beliefs to be a true or ideal representation of the state of the world.

'4 possible purposes to human existence'

Good, you used the word 'possible' which shows that even you, the author, thinks that the following statements are suggestions, not absolute truths.

'1) Personal happiness'

I doubt anyone disagrees with that, but it is not linked to intellectual achievement, is it?

'2) Maximising the happiness of others'

Ditto my last response. How does calling someone a 'pet monkey' achieve this, exactly? I'm very interested in your logical reply.

'3) Personal Achievement (as in knowledge)'

Personal achievement can also be measured in parentgood, a race well run, a garden well-tended, a beautiful poem etc. Knowing something you didn't know before is only one form of achievement. I happened to discover a new mathematical truth at the age of twelve. This in no way made me feel as much personal happiness as watching my grandson being born.

'4) The advancement of society's aggregate achievements'

As you have placed this as number 4 is this a) less, b) more or c) equally as important as the above? It is not clear from your post. Are the criteria equal, random or in ascending or descending order of importance? Please explain. Anyway, e.g. clean streets are an important part in the above. If you remember your history you will recall that it was the construction of a sewage system that cleared London of typhoid, not anti-biotics. A sewage system designed and built by engineers and construction workers, not doctors.

'5)The pursuit of Justice'

This is not achieved in the courtroom. In fact, courts are a last resort in a situation where the pursuit of Justice has manifestly failed. If humans were perfect in their dealings with each other a legal system would be unnecessary. After all, justice starts in interpersonal dealings. Even my grandchildren have to deal with issues of justice when the sharing of a toy is under discussion. We do not call a lawyer!

If you see the above responses as 'illogical' and 'visceral', so be it. I appreciate that it is tough to let go of deeply felt (visceral? Wink ) beliefs and hard to see the logic in an opposing argument. But please try. Nowhere in your belief system as outlined by you is there room for the judgement and abuse of others according to intellect. Please reconsider your attitude to those less fortunate than yourself. That attitude does not reflect well on you which is a shame as I like to believe that you might not be really as bigotted as your postings on this thread would suggest.

BTW I did notice that Louise's '4 possible purposes to human existence' have five points listed below. Monty Python fan? Wink

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Quote:
Don't you DARE prevent me from responding logically to the arguments presented before me. That is duckign out of an argument you know you can't win.


Louise, we aren't preventing you from responding logically, we are ASKING you to respond logically and we have seen no sign of that so far.

Quote:
I believe that are there are 4 possible purposes to human existence.

Quote:
No the four things I set out before you are the four possible  roots of ideologies.Any of them may or may not be the purpose(s) of life.


Leaving aside the insertion of a fifth purpose, with respect please re-read what you wrote. If you are claiming to be following a logical course please set out your arguments in a logical manner.

And you failed to answer any of my points logically. When you ask for logical discourse it is rude to ignore the logical responses. Everyone has been putting forward logical responses to your assertions but you refuse to accept the logic because it conflicts with your prejudice.

I feel really sorry for you.

Do you want her? She isn't house-trained yet! Wink
Thank you Erkolos, I stand corrected.

Sorry Louise, I really should not have got carried away with the joking, it was unfair.

Louise18 Wrote:
Anything I missed?


Just about everything, Louise. You seem to have a blind spot to what everyone else is saying here. You twist quotes from your own posts into Gordian knots trying to imply that they said something different.

You are number-blind.

Quote:
I believe that are there are 4 possible purposes to human existence.
1) Personal happiness
2) Maximising the happiness of others
3) Personal Achievement (as in knowledge)
4) The advancement of society's aggregate achievements
5)The pursuit of Justice.
My point was that these are the 6 building blocks


At your own admission:

Louise18 Wrote:
I am positively *** at Maths and Science


Given that Oxford University has among most demanding entry requirements in the world, and that Law, being one of the most popular courses, has extremely high entry requirements can you explain how:

Louise18 Wrote:
I am an oxonian Law student.


What were your school leaving qualifications - subjects and grades?

I know that this is likely to get the response from you that it is personal, but if you truly believe that educational attainment is the pinnacle of human classification, and that you must be allowed to apply it to others, then you must be prepared to allow others to apply that test to you and to respond appropriately.

Otherwise I shall assume that someone is playing with the Turing test and that Louise18 is the product of a warped computer program and not a real human.

Louise18 Wrote:
I got 7A*s and 3As at GCSE. 4AS at A-level in English, Spanish, History and General Studies and an A in critical thinking AS. All taken a year early. I got 80% on the LNAT. None of my academic work contains spelling errors.


Well done, very impressive. Big Grin With those scores I bet you sailed through the LNAT. Cool

Louise18 Wrote:
I am positively *** at Maths and Science


I'm sorry - but how exactly is A* or A positively ***? Rolleyes

http://www.competition-law.ox.ac.uk/unde...eria.shtml

Quote:
Successful applicants for admission to our undergraduate law programmes possess the following qualities, and the admissions process as a whole is designed to identify which applicants possess them in the greatest measure:

Application: motivation and capacity for sustained and intense work;

Reasoning ability: ability to analyse and solve problems using logical and critical approaches, ability to draw fine distinctions, ability to separate the relevant from the irrelevant, capacity for accurate and critical observation, capacity for sustained and cogent argument, creativity and flexibility of thought and lateral thinking;

Communication: willingness and ability to express ideas clearly and effectively; ability to listen; ability to give considered responses.

Throughout the admissions process, tutors will be seeking to detect the candidate's future potential as a law student.  Existing achievement (as revealed in official examinations, predicted examination results, and school reports), as well as performance in the written test and interview, is relied upon mainly as evidence of future potential.

My father, my brother and two of my sons are out-and-out perfectionists. Anything less than 100% they regard as a disaster. Even though, like Louise, they were years ahead of their age-peers and still scoring off the scale, so I have some sympathy for how she feels. I also was furious with myself if I made an error in maths.

However, NOT ONE of the above applied the perfectionism to anyone but ourselves. We are aware that this attitude, although generated unconsciously and therefore something that we cannot 'help', is nevertheless a character flaw and must be controlled to the best of our ability.

Tigger_the_Wing Wrote:
I'm sorry - but how exactly is A* or A positively ***? Rolleyes


Louise18 Wrote:
I got A*s in science and an A in maths. Anyone who is familiar with the current educational system knows that anyone who has any ability in maths would easily get an A* and an A at A-level and an A in Further Maths A-level, and at leas a grade 2 on the STEP.

I do not consider perfectionism a flaw, I consider it to be a positive quality. And I don't see how having no respect for people who achieve nothing is imposing perfectionism onto other people.


Then I'm afraid that I have to give up. If you really cannot see the connection
then you probably think that the whole of English Law since Magna Carta is a farce.

Perhaps you should buy your own island with all the huge fees you'll get from your equally amoral corporate clients, buy a flock of sheep and found your own dictatorship.

BTW, has it not occurred to you that the only reason that you are on this board boasting of your academic achievements is because the very same uneducated non-achievers you despise so much fought for your equality?

If not for them, we females would still be excluded from further education and the vote. The reason your age is important is because we 'older ladies' remember being barred from many careers solely on the grounds of being female. OUR mothers had to give up careers on marriage. Many were sacked with no redress after WWI and WWII to provide jobs for returning soldiers. Women STILL only earn 60% of men for the same work, and most are still excluded from higher paid careers. And that is in the western capitalist countries. You wouldn't hold your current views if you were 60.

tenaciouscj Wrote:
And I wonder if you were ever told as I was, "girls can't do metalwork and woodwork". I also got quite bolshy about being directed towards the dolls at pre-school when I wanted to play with the blocks and cars, didn't want to do household chores unless my brothers did too, and so on.


Oh, yes!! And:
"Come down from there, girls mustn't climb trees!"
"Why not?"
*Whispers* "Everyone will see your knickers."
"Can I wear trousers then?"
*Shock* "NO! Girls don't wear trousers!"

And freezing my bare knees in winter as a result. Sad

I LOATHED dolls, couldn't see the point in lining up miniature plastic corpses and 'playing tea'.

My dad was on my side, though, and I had a HUGE toy car collection!

tenaciouscj Wrote:
Unfortunately, much of the sex education I got was "just say No". Good in theory but not in practice.


I agree. Brought up to be strictly polite, at WHAT POINT was I supposed to say no? I had absolutely NO idea about flirting (I do now! Wink) or what anyone meant with their body language. I was totally lost.

Girls these days (luckily) have so much more freedom and information. I don't envy them - I wouldnt go back to being a teenager again! Tongue - so I'm pleased that they have more opportunities. I just wish that they were told WHY!

Louise18 Wrote:

I did not say that the suffragette movement was not an achievement, or that consideration should not be taken for the generation people were brought up in and what opportunities they had. But to do that they had to have ambition, the desire to do something with their lives other than bring up children. They had to educate themselves at home. Formulate plans of how to change government policies, go against the crowd and fight for what they believed in. They could not have done that without some intelligence and knowledge. Those children sat in a special needs school who can't feed themselves, can't use a toilet and can't communicate could not have achieved what the suffragettes achieved. Great achievements require other qualities besides intelligence to make them happen, but they cannot be done without intelligence. And the more intelligent a person is, the more power they have at their disposal if they choose to use it.  

I despise my mother for not going to university in a generation where people had fought for her opportunity to go, and where she would not have had to have paid any of the costs herself. I do not react the same way to my grandmother being forced to drop out of grammar school to get a job in the war. But this is 2007 in the UK. It would be different in 1940, it would be different in Uganda. But in 2007 in the UK I do not think expecting someone to contribute to society at least as much as they take from it constitutes too much to ask or constitutes perfectionism. People have opportunities. It might not be a perfect system but people have free education, free school meals, and social services. There are opportunities for adults to brush up the skills they missed when they were young.  They have more opportunities than any generation before them, and working class people from those generations became successful and contributed, so I don't see what's wrong with expecting them to today.


Do you not see the difference between wishing that something is so, and despising people, including, for heaven's sake YOUR OWN MOTHER Rolleyes for not reaching your exacting standards?

Please stop. You must realise by now that absolutely no-one else thinks that it is OK. It is not OK under English Law. It is not OK under common decency. Your attitude to other people verges on the inhuman and yes, that attitude is exactly what led to Hitler's pogrom on the Jewish people. Remember, he started with the very people that you equate with monkeys.

Instead of abusing those less fortunate than you, why not vow to use your intellect to improve their lot? Now that would be a useful and long-lasting contribution to society.

Max the Bear Wrote:

Louise18 Wrote:

... my remarks are not motivated by disability but by stupidity.


And on that, I believe, we can all agree.


Big GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin

I sincerely hope that her tutors don't find this thread. Sad
Well put, Batman.

Perfectionism can only lead to loathing, in your case self-loathing, in Louise's case loathing of everyone else.

We each need to look at ourselves as if we were someone else. Would I feel good about someone else treating this person that way? No? Then I mustn't treat me that way.

Respect myself, then it is easier to face life. I may have had a rotten time at school, but there are other ways to learn things now I'm an adult, I only have to learn about stuff that interests me and there are no tests! YAY!!!
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