Aspies For Freedom - "Like pet monkeys"

I had a sub in my social studies class the other day. Somehow we got off topic and the sub started talking about her friend, who is a special ed. teacher. This sub described the students her friend works with as "severes", and went on to say, "I don't mean to be offensive, but these kids are like- pet monkeys. They can't talk. Their greatest acomplishments in life are getting potty trained. Then they go home and thier parents use diapers because it's easier, so they have to learn all over again".
Obviously I was shocked and offended by her statement. Regardless of whether they are potty trained or not, can speak or not, they are NOT "pet monkeys"- they are PEOPLE! But I didn't know what to say to her. It would not have been effective to start getting beligerent with her; it only would have put her on the defensive and she would have learned nothing from the argument. I don't know how to have discussions with people on such touchy subjects.

SheWhoCan'tThinkOfAUsername Wrote:

How can you say another person is like a "pet monkey" and *not* be offensive? I can't believe a teacher would say that to her students! Especially students she didn't know very well. What if one of the students had a brother or sister in that class?

Yes, and a very high percentage of the students at my school are learning-disabled or on medication for some sort of problem or other, which makes it even more insensitive.

Natalie Wrote:

I can see where most people are coming from in this thread. I think the comment that started the discussion (that *** people "are like pet monkeys") is in an inappropriate remark because it implies that both forms of life, *** humans and non-human primates, are both inherently inferior to non-*** humans. In my head it would be no different than saying that *** people "are like pet black people" - it's a ridiculous comparison that serves no purpose other than to demean both groups and say that one form of life is superior and deserves more respect than another.

Well said.

anbuend Wrote:

Five, parrots have been tested on this.��They can describe abstract qualities of objects (color, shape, number, etc) correctly without a human telling them which is which.��They know what they're talking about.��They are said to have the intellectual capacity of the average 5ish-year-old human child.
[quote]

Absolutely. Parrots aren't the only ones, either- Octopi can solve incredibly complex puzzles and a wide variety of birds have developed tool use. Even war and recreational sex are not human inventions alone- Chimpanzees have wars frequently (at times, one group will completely wipe out another group. They don't eat each other, either- they simply kill the other group), and dolphins have sex for fun on a regular basis (as oposed to purely for reproduction), not to mention Bonobos, who have sex indiscriminatly with all the other members of their group as part of regular social interaction.

Humans are not superior. We are different. All animals are unique.

Luai_lashire Wrote:

[quote=anbuend]
Five, parrots have been tested on this.��They can describe abstract qualities of objects (color, shape, number, etc) correctly without a human telling them which is which.��They know what they're talking about.��They are said to have the intellectual capacity of the average 5ish-year-old human child.

Quote:

Absolutely.��Parrots aren't the only ones, either- Octopi can solve incredibly complex puzzles and a wide variety of birds have developed tool use.��Even war and recreational sex are not human inventions alone- Chimpanzees have wars frequently (at times, one group will completely wipe out another group.��They don't eat each other, either- they simply kill the other group), and dolphins have sex for fun on a regular basis (as oposed to purely for reproduction), not to mention Bonobos, who have sex indiscriminatly with all the other members of their group as part of regular social interaction.

Humans are not superior.��We are different.��All animals are unique.

Ah, ***. Why'd it come out like that?
EDIT BUTTON PLEASE!!!!!!

Ayreon Wrote:

her stupid argument's doesn't have sense because she don't KNOW anything of Autistic Disordes is just an opinion from an Ignorant NT

Bardwolf Wrote:

Heck am the one with the diagonosis, your just an uppity little collage snot.

Why do both of you asume louise is NT? Just because she is intolerant and bigotted? NTs are not the only people capable of bigotry, just so you know. You should take a good, long look at yourselves and ask yourselves why you would make such an assumption.

BardWolf Wrote:

And your sticking up for her because??

And I'm not saying she's NT thats your assumtion. I'm saying that she's an arrogant college ****. Who's stupid enough to post this kind of pro-eugenics *** on a website that support equal rights for the congentively challenged. I'm mean, I'm the kind of person in her mindset that should be equivocated as a "pet monkey" and here she is asking for a cyber-asswhooping. Seriously, it's uppity little shits like her, thats makes me disklike humaninty with a passion

What I said:

Quote:

Just because she is intolerant and bigotted?

That doesn't sound like "Sticking up for her" to me- I am agreeing with you.

What you said:

Quote:

Obviously college students have less people sense than Aspies do. Heck am the one with the diagonosis, your just an uppity little collage snot.

OK, you don't out-and-out say she's NT.  You do make it clear you consider yourself to be ASD and NOT her- she's "just an uppitty little college snot".

I also notice that you, in your previous post, repeatedly refer to her as "***" and otherwise fling about cognitive-disabilty-related insults.  Considering the subject of the original post, I find this to be disgusting and ironic.  What you are doing is exactly what I'd like to see not happening anymore- demeaning MR people by using their diagnosis as an insult to fling at anyone you don't like, just because you don't like them.

And once again, let me clarify (since you don't seem to get it) that I'm not standing up for her- I think she's an arogant snot, too.  I hope she gets herself banned.

BardWolf Wrote:

Since when have I supportated democracy? *** democracy, Tribal Rule all the way [/endsatire]

Quote:

OK, you don't out-and-out say she's NT.��You do make it clear you consider yourself to be ASD and NOT her- she's "just an uppitty little college snot".

Well she is. I'm the kind of person that he's has little tolerance for, and here I am pointing out her stupidity of ragging on MRs on a board that has a major "Human rights"
edge to it. Do have to spell it out?

Quote:

I also notice that you, in your previous post, repeatedly refer to her as "***" and otherwise fling about cognitive-disabilty-related insults.��Considering the subject of the original post, I find this to be disgusting and ironic.��What you are doing is exactly what I'd like to see not happening anymore- demeaning MR people by using their diagnosis as an insult to fling at anyone you don't like, just because you don't like them.

Obviously you don't understand how languge evolves. "Gay" is a demeaning word, no longer meaning happy or bright, "queer" is no longer strange. "Cool" these days have been marred around and the meaning is muddy. "Hot" is a word for attraction, and "***" has always been a demeaning word Nothing has changed since the days when clinicans use that word only. Now it's a part of English slang. Get over it. I bet you use that word occassionally too in that meaning. Don't deny it, it's part of out social structure. I bet you use "gay" and "hot" in the slang context all the time. Who **** cares if I use "***" as a derogitory word. I ment to be ironic! That was the point.

And you know what? What irrates me about the rights of the MR/DD is people like you. That whine everytime some one uses slang dialouge of "***." Hell most of my MD (despite your belief that I have any with the tone of your post) friends. Don't give two shits anymore if I use it, even one themselves have use that word before in it's slang context. Seriously, nobody cares anymore. It's simple lanaguge evolution. Stop with the Waaaahbulance ***. It gets old.

Quote:

And once again, let me clarify (since you don't seem to get it) that I'm not standing up for her- I think she's an arogant snot, too.��I hope she gets herself banned.

You yourself is sounding pretty arrogant(thats how you spell it BTW) too. Seriously quit it.

This is not even worth a response. I think everyone can draw their own conclusions based on your own words. I will not bother to try to clarify or react to anything more you say to or about me. Good day.

SoccerFreak248 Wrote:

I was thinking, what if there was two people. One was a person who had an 210 IQ and was a scientist, leading a research project for a cure agaisnt cancer. And the other person was a professional sports player, having a learning disability, and in his free time he went out and volunteered to help with sick kids at the children's hospital.

In Lousie's view, the scientist would be more valuable to society than the professional sports player. Because his skills are more usfull

But lets says the scientist never found the cure for cancer and never really made any bounds in his research, thus not having many accomplishments. Then the sports player went out and won the stanly cup, and then became a cyclist and won the tour de france (without steroids :p), then became a baseball player and broke the homerun record (also without steroids :p), then he would have more accomplishments than the scientist, in Lousie's view "deserving more respect". Her views contradict another.

For me, for each person, when I decide how much respect I give them I evaluate on a number of factors, it's something called worth. What they are worth to me. And all I can say is that every person can be worth something.

You forgot- in addition to his accomplishments, the sports player made a difference in sick kids lives, a difference that the scientist never made, despite his research. None of those kids will ever know that scientist's name, but they will know the sports player, and they will be happy because he was there for them.

alexmagnus Wrote:

Quote:

Animals kill other animals for food. The do not kill out of pleasure.

Actually, chimpanzees are also known for killing each other. In some regions chimpanzees even "re-invented" (i.e. it was invented earlier by humans but they invented it independent from them) spears which are made specially to kill other chimpanzees and are never used to kill non-chimpanzees. Chimpanzzes already re-invented spear and hammer. If we humans don't destroy them, it is entirely possible they will evolve into kind of humans (actally some biologists think they ARE humans and not apes - Homo Troglodytes). There is an opinion that humans made its biggest progress after they understood how to use fire. Chimps still didn't cometo that idea, but if they do - watch out!

Unfortunately, we humans destroy our possibloe biological brothers - in the last 40 years the number of chimpanzees in the world went back from 2 billions to 200 millions, mostly due to human intervention.

That's correct. Of course, there is another kind of chimp that is reknowned for its pacifism- the Bonobo. Bonobos have sex for fun, and they do it constantly and as a regular part of socialization. Unlike the other chimps, they are incredibly peaceful and get along well with other groups of bonobos. Scientists speculate that this is because of the sex- that it allows them to have better social connections between bonobo groups.
Just something to chew on.

Batman55 Wrote:

Does anyone in this thread have even the slightest belief in God!?

Geez, this is depressing.��Where's GuessWho when you need him?

Rolleyes You don't have to be a Creationist to beleive in God.

Personally I believe in Deity, but I wouldn't call It "God", nor do I think it is in the slightest bit sentient; it's simply... THERE. It's a difficult beleif to explain.

ConLang Wrote:

I believe in a symphony of vibrating superstrings, that all that there is is part of a great cosmic music.��That might be more mystical than deist or theist, but it is not inconceivable to me that someone is playing those instruments.

ConLang,
That's very close to my own personal belief! Big Grin

Batman55 Wrote:

Maybe we go to Xibalba when we die, just like in The Fountain.

That was a really cool, celestial scene, at the end of that movie.

A shame the rest of the movie was so uneven.

What do you mean, uneven?
I loved the whole thing, so I'm biased I guess. Big Grin But I didn't see anything I would describe as "uneven". It was a bit slow and a bit heavy on the weepy stuff, but that was part of the artistic vision.
I do know a whole bunch of people who didn't understand the subtler points of the plot, though.

Louise18 Wrote:

couldbecousin Wrote:

Louise18 Wrote:

Tigger_the_Wing Wrote:

My 'system' for assessing people is non-existent. I do not have a 'system'. I would not have a 'system' because that is prejudice. I allow everyone to assess themselves and I like everyone until they hurt someone. Louise, you have hurt a lot of people with your prejudice and I can not approve of such behaviour. I have not made any personal remarks as to your worthiness, just your appalling behaviour.

But if I met you I'd probably still give you a hug!

Then you do have a system. Its called whether or not they hurt people. And my appalling behaviour is simply to point out a truth to you: some people are better than others. Why is that so difficult for you to accept?

It is difficult for me to accept because the thing that you feel makes some people "better than others"---intelligence---is something no one can choose or control.��It is sheer luck that you were given the brain you have.��How can you say that your genetic good fortune alone makes you better than someone less fortunate?��

Because your genetics ARE you. They aren't a thing external to you tha is bestowed upon you like money or affection. Therefore you are saying in essence how can you say that your good fortune in being better makes you better than someone less fortunate?

I'm pointing out that your genes are a gift, not something you earn. By all means be proud of what you achieve through your efforts, but don't look down in contempt on those who were born with less potential than you have.

Louise18 Wrote:

I have substantiated my points as much as (if not more than) anyone else in this thread.

Rolleyes Only with strawmen.

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