Taking the more simple approach, isn't there something that explains how with Avoidant PD, a person gets really "suspicious" and anxious about someone's general everyday social questions. "Are you married? Do you have kids?", etc. My impression, as Cousin outlined and touched upon also, is that with AS/HFA, we don't particularly like (or don't always like) or have no huge "interest" in taking part in general everyday chit-chat.
Someone with Avoidant PD will talk to you, but will get overly anxious if you ask questions that they feel is of a more "personal" nature. They will avoid answering you directly or might have a habit of saying "Why do you ask?".
When I do feel like "chatting" or sharing information, I don't give a rip what I'm asked. I might tell you anything! BUT, I might not like being "bothered" in the first place.
Anyway, that's how I personally differentiate it.
Yeah, but to go one step further with that, Noetic, how would the underlying AvPD be "presented" outwardly? To cover for those underlying insecurities or fears, what would someone with AvPD say? In what ways or how would a presentation of AvPD appear to someone else? From an external objective standpoint, not an internal one? I understand "paranoid" as being more that the person is certain that someone is deliberately out to "get them", so they are constantly watching their backs and are a bit more "frantic" in their presentation and speech. It's a quite bit more intense, both internally and in external presentation. (?)
Hey, interesting observation, previous to your last post, too, Noetic! Is it theorized that autism in any form includes the "fear" of social interaction? I get extremely anxious about it, but not because I "fear" it, just because I oftentimes "hate" it, but for the reasons that Cousin and I have opined here previously.
I can do it, and do it often, even when I might still be extremely anxious about it and am not "wanting" to do it. (I hate doing things I don't "want" to do, but I will do them.)
I also lack the underlying "interest" in initiating "in person" social interaction the majority of the time. I rarely accept any invitations to go anywhere with someone. When I'm alone, I like it fine, and more often than not prefer being alone (or with one person who is close to me who also understands me completely, like my youngest son). I do go out and about by myself often, too.
I don't "fear" social interaction, though. I just don't "get it" and get confused when I'm in the middle of it. And it's extremely tiring for me while "faking" it during social interaction - applying all of the "tricks of the trade" and coping mechanisms I have learned and practiced (via trial and error) over the years in order to pass as "normal, but odd."
And if it is helpful to anyone else whatsoever, after getting to know me more, as is possible via online posts, schizoid (and any other psychological, psychiatric or other mental illnesses) have been totally tested, screened and watched for many times with me over the years, and nada. Nothing else there at all. Not even any speculations of that nature. That was and is the only consistent agreement between both/all medical divisions and even friends/family. No other co-morbid conditions of any psychological or psychiatric nature exist with me. I'm luckily spared there. Now, additional co-morbid physical conditions, yes. Gastro-intestinal, irritable bowel, fibromyalgia, blah blah, but nothing serious.) You could almost say that someone like me would be a "pure" HFA/AS?
Interesting................
Athlynne, have you also looked into PTSD at all?
Phew, Pakrat! I totally agree. Thanks for pointing that out. I had no idea how to say that or even to describe what I am feeling. "Confusion", that's it!!
I have gotten so confused this morning here, that I'm frustrated and mildly shaking inside right now. Not from anger or fear or anxiety or anything like that, but just from pure confusion and not being able to process, translate and apply meaning to some of these conversations. (Not anybody's fault.) But certainly an interesting observation!!
Well, from what I researched, a person who has Avoidant Personality Disorder will usually avoid any and all social situations and settings. Also, they tend to be very shy and will also avoid people in general, not just crowds or groups, because they tend to be afraid of other people. I don't think stimming or obsessive rituals is part of the diagnosis from what I researched. People with Avoidant Personality Disorder will also have an inferiority complex, even though both their physical and mental skills are much more than adequate.
With Aspergers Syndrome or HFA, people who have that usually have poor social skills, sensory issues, obsessions, very literal thinking, or sometimes tend to be very "right-brained". With HFA, there is usually a language delay (as I had). As gemtnt pointed out, some Aspies tend to avoid social situations later in life due to experience.
There are also things like memory that I worry about--I have memories from before I was 3, and this seems to be an Asperger trait.
Is this correct, are those early memories an Asperger trait? I have very early memories.
This thread has confused me, like some of you. Until now I see myself as probably borderline Aspie.
I have 1 or 2 special interests. I tend to behave like a hermit. My reasons to avoid social contact are, in the right order: fear, lack of interest, lack of social skills.
Thanks Noetic. What I remember is labelling things as not interesting, before I could walk, and I walked around 1.
That's, um, interesting...
You don't believe me! I remember labelling walking as not interesting when I tried to but couldn't yet. Really!
Still nobody has said what NVLD means.
Non-Verbal Learning Disability (or Disorder)
Is this correct, are those early memories an Asperger trait? I have very early memories.
People who are visual thinkers (rather than verbal ones), as well as autistic people, who often tend to have strong sensory memories (as opposed to remembering abstractions of those sensory impressions), usually have memories going back to well before they could speak.
Most NTs on the other hand tend to remember only from an age where their thinking had become verbal (usually when they learned to talk).
I have a memory of two cribs, side by side, in a dimly lit hallway. My mom couldn't believe I could remember this, she wondered if she had told me about it. She said I was right, as babies, my sister and I had cribs by eachother, in a small room. I was a bit off about the hallway, but it was a memory from when I was a baby.
Still nobody has said what NVLD means.
NVLD=NonVerbal Learning Disability
it is a really confusing name for a disability in which the person has difficulty with nonverbal communication such as body language, spatial skills, and math.
People with this label are verbal, but they do have difficulty with language. They might not easily understand jokes and figurative language. People tend to be labeled NVLD in late middle school or high school because the complex language difficulties are more apparent then.
The feature that really differintiates it from ADD is the spatial piece. As a label, it became very popular in the very late 90sand early mulinium.
Now there is some talk that women who may actually have AS were given this label or ADD instead.
Janet
What characteristics of Asperger's don't match with Avoidant Personality Disorder?
Maybe the time of onset...?
"The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (American Psychiatric Association, 1994, pp. 664-665) describes Avoidant Personality Disorder as a pervasive pattern of social inhibition, feelings of inadequacy, and hypersensitivity to negative evaluation, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following...(http://www.ptypes.com/avoidantpd.html)"
I have all these difficulties, but isn't this pretty much the same as AS, anyway..?  Wouldn't most people with AS have at least a few traits of NVLD...?
Seems less like a comorbid and more a part of AS, to me.
ADD, NLVD, and AS are confusing, and only become more confusing the more you know.
The distinguishing feature that causes some people to believe that NLVD is not spectrum is the poor math abilities.
However, as I have gotten to know people on this forum, I have found out that some aspies do not have good math skills.
ADDers tend to immature, but do not struggle so much with social communication
I was evaluated in 1999 for NLVD. The psych said that my spatial skills were higher than in NLVD and said I had ADD instead. She did not adress my social-pragmatic concerns at all (I guess it didn't fit in neatly enough).
More recently, people are looking at how AS varies b/t genders and are rethinking the the labels of ADD and NLVD, especially in women.
Where'd you read that, Chimera?
our honest John, did not fit with the heretofore known "definition" of aspergers (though I was avoiding all labels).  The previous parameters specifically excluded kids who were funny- like witty, comical, superbly developed with language skills John.  John, as a couple of you mentioned, also has horrid abilities in math and math reasoning.  His composite IQ is ("only" -who cares) 105, but that is becasue his math and working memory is 85.  However, his spatial ability is quite superior.  He is also very, very imaginative and talkative - and compassionate - also excluded in soime lists.  He also seems similar to you, tenaciouscj, as his art abilities are very good but unorthodox, he is unteachable in art.  (He has no interest in others' techniques - I am not an artist so maybe that is par for the course).  Way back when he was barley 3 years old, he could already draw in 3 dimensions, with perfect scale and perspective - he even gave shadows to his pictures ... sorry, boasting a bit, he's quite good.  I gahave seen him draw with his eyes closed, it seems he knows what he is going to draw when he first puts his pencil down - he sometimes doesn't lift the pencil till the picture is done.  No erasures.  I guess that is just called natural ability. It is a shame that when he is struggling through the tedium of school work, he loses his inspiration.  Summer is his prolific time.
Your boasting is inconsiderate to me.  I am 26 and art is one of my few gifts, and you are telling me your 3 year old son could draw with 3 dimensions--and I still cannot.
I have serious deficits in both Math and spatial skills and I am not good at anything.  Except art perhaps, but apparently your son is a hundred times better than me.
Thank you for mentioning my name alongside tenaciouscj with unorthodox skills... that was nice of you (sarcasm)
Batman, I feel this is a rather unfair thing to say to honestjohn.
  I know you are feeling jealous, but this boy's talent really has nothing to do with you.
You can both be artists, actually.
As far as I know AS and NLD are basically the same thing and that people diagnosed as one of them often meet all the criteria for the other. One site I was reading stated that psychiatrists were more prone to diagnosing people as AS, while neuropsychologists tended to prefer the NLD diagnosis. Apparently many professionals feel that NLD/AS are unecessary divisions of the same condition.
Based on what I've read, though, it seems that the criteria for NLD does not include stimming/repetetive movements or intense obsessions with certain topics. I certainly have both of those.
I do have intense obsessions, but not to the extent that most Aspies have them. In fact it seems a lot of people know more about my interests than I do--my method of retaining information is "broken" and not very effective. Basically I retain "random information" and cannot learn very deeply into any topic, because of learning problems.
However, I do have lots of routines and rituals--shouldn't this be more AS than NVLD?
I do not stim very much, however.