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Full Version: Brain Switch Test (for autism?)
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Well it's either unreliable or > 6 for me. Do you know if it is supposed to be BOTH others disappearing at the same time? Because it was usually either one or the other, then they flickered, so I am not sure how LONG they all have to re-appear for. I'd be curious to see how this test turns out once I have my filtered lenses, as they seem to steady my vision a great deal.

First time round I got up to 20 until I realised I had set the timer for 30 minutes instead of 30 seconds  :roll
What makes no sense to me is what everything I have read is that left brain processing looks at things from parts to the whole giving the indication that it's more detail-oriented processing and the right brain processing looks at things from whole to the parts giving indication of processing the 'big picture', the whole test makes little sense to me as they said:

Quote:
It works like this. When your detail conscious right brain is in charge, it sees everything, including the yellow dots.
But when the big picture left brain takes over, it concentrates on the main pattern – the swirling blue dots – and ignores the yellow dots.



This is where my confusion lies, I thought autistics/aspies tends to be left-brained and detail-oriented in general this would throw away that theory I figure. Yet slow left-right brain switching seems like it'd be leaning towards autistic/asperers where we have issues with attention switching sometimes and can tend to have a better concentration/focus at times.

I scored about 3. But really not sure how reliable this really is.

(If this is off-topic, please move)

MishLuvsHer2Boys Wrote:
What makes no sense to me is what everything I have read is that left brain processing looks at things from parts to the whole giving the indication that it's more detail-oriented processing and the right brain processing looks at things from whole to the parts giving indication of processing the 'big picture', the whole test makes little sense to me as they said

The "cliche" Donna Williams has created is that Auties are more right-brained and Aspies more left-brained but to be honest the human brain is far more complex than that, I really don't think it can be simplified to left or right.

Personally, I believe that it is more the co-ordination of the two halves that influences whether or not someone is autistic, more than whether you tend to be more left- or more right-brained (with regards to which hemisphere is dominant, not with regards to specific traits). This might explain why there seem to be so many different types of brain wiring or damage that can cause very similar ways of thinking. Only processing some of the input consciously might well lead to some of the possible manifestations, like "unconscious knowledge" or focus on objects or details rather than people (as they are smaller and/or more predictable, so can be understood and studied more easily).

Olga Bogdashina has made some very interesting points with regards to Detail vs. Gestalt processing in one of her books, and it was one of those big "Aha" moments for me because I had always been confused by this "only focus on details" thing that is supposedly the case in autism, and has led me to great confusion about my own diagnosis because I definitely do not *just* focus on the details, but I do not focus on the big picture either.

It's always been more of an either/or state for me. I either get lost in the details when trying to draw up a plan and lose sight of the overall idea, or perhaps I notice details in the environment or in an object or situations (like I notice a red button but don't register what the whole object is supposed to be), OR I get nothing but a vague, foggy spatial "Imprint" of something with little or no detail.

Especially visually, I have always had the problem of NOT being able to focus on anything, but more being hit with the whole scene, being overwhelmed. This may be the reason for my hyperlexic reading style, but in many other areas where actually taking in individual, non-connected aspects (like individual numbers from a blackboard) this has always been very difficult.

O. Bogdashina Wrote:
Autistic people may experience gestalt perception in any sensory modality. A person who experiences visual gestalthas a great difficulty focusing on a single detail of the scene and finds it almost impossible to separate it from the whole picture. People with auditory gestalt perception have a great difficulty to concentrating [sic!] on one auditory stimulus, for example, someone's voice as it goes as a package with all the environmental noises: fans working, doors opening, someone coughing, cars passing, etc.
...
As there is too much information coming in, it is hard to know which stimuli to attend to. As the stock of knowledge accumulated by autistic individuals is different, then their attention would also be different.

Here arises the question: Does the explanation of 'gestalt perception' contradict the 'weak central coherence theory' (Frith 1989) in autism? No, it does not. The theory of weak central coherence 'starts working' at the next stage of the process of perception when gestalt perception inevitably leads to distortions and fragmentation, in order to limit the amount of information to be processed.

Different stages (and styles) of perception can account for the controversial findings of studies investigating weak central coherence and global processing in autism. On the one hand, Embedded Figures Tests have been considered as the strongest area where autistic individuals perform better than non-autistic ones (Joliffe and Baron-Cohen 1997; Shah and Frith 1993) and the results have been interpreted as an illustration of weak central coherence in autism.

On the other hand, the recent study (Garner and Hamilton 2001) has challenged this idea and shown that autistic individuals can see optical illusions i.e. have the ability to cohere.
...
Whether it is a cognitive style or a perceptual style, we cannot talk about a continuum here, as one and the same person seems to be able to display both styles at different times. Thus the overflow of sensory information that cannot be filtered and/or processed simultaneously may cause distortions in perception.

Gestalt perception may result in different sensory experiences and compensatory strategies (voluntary or involuntary) the person acquires in order to cope with sensory information overload.

The bipolar thing is also interesting, because I have read theories that a certain aspect of bipolar may be linked with autism, that a rapid-cycling form of bipolar may cause part of the developmental characteristics of autism in some individuals.

I couldn't do the original test, but tried Wolfy's, which is much better. I did it twice, and got 2 the first time, and 3 the second time.
Thanks Noetic, that is a little less confusing than what I have read, I guess it threw me off a little reading the instructions to the tests and such and what could be actually occuring.

Lili Marlene Wrote:
Noetic, do you notice when you change from one mode to the other? Does anything noticeable happen?

Not really - it generally is more of a long-term thing, but I guess the "getting sucked into..." something expression can sometimes be suitable to describe it, if the shift is noticeable.

I do believe that some sort of "shift" sometimes happens when I go to bed though, like part of my brain goes to sleep. I often end up "coming online" with a jolt after having slept for a few seconds, I am not sure if this is an effect of overload or something as this happens more often when I am stressed. I often say goodnight to my partner, turn around, go to sleep and then after shutting my eyes for a few seconds, I am kind of awake again and want to say goodnight all over again, often wanting a cuddle which confuses him a bit  :?

Sometimes I am very "clearheaded" and can plan and serialise things (like what I want to do the next day, or something I had been trying to work out for days suddenly becomes clear), but other times I am kind of the opposite, and it is often in that "state" that I can re-visit in my memory (in a lot of spatial and sensory detail) places from my childhood, "walk" through maps of places I visited both past and present.

Donna Williams described something similar in "Autism and Sensing", only she seemed to experience an out of body experience, with seeing people and their interactions "as they happened" (at least she says so, she mentions a few incidences where people later told her about things she had seen in such a state) whereas for me it really is more a sensory re-visiting of things in my memory. (If that makes sense)

Lili Marlene Wrote:
The waking with a jolt after sleeping a few seconds thing might be the hypnagogic state, which is a thing that all people get when falling asleep. Sometimes it can feel like falling which can be terrifying and wake a person up. I believe the falling sensation sometimes experienced in sleep or dreams is caused by mild seizure activity.

I have looked into this before, and I've read many different explanations (including panic attacks, drop in blood pressure etc.).

It was less the jolt than the shift that occurs between that I was trying to emphasise here, the difference between brain dominance that seems to be most obvious in this state.

I don't get the falling bit a lot any more (I used to dream I was falling out of the bus or tram because I missed a step), it is much more gentle these days but it still kind of sucks because I usually spend several hours afterwards trying to get back to sleep, at least when I am in "logical" mode. When I am in that more hypnotic daydreaming mode I quite enjoy it, even if I don't get to sleep until 3 am or so.

I have learned a lot about how my memory etc. works in these states though so I certainly wouldn't want to miss them!

Thanks for mentioning the term to me though, I didn't know there was a name for this (and it is apparently linked to out of body experiences but unless some kind of disaster has occurred in the places I "visit" - and removed all the people and mopving things! -  this really is just a memory re-visit for me  :wink: )

Amy Wrote:
Noetic, do you ever get hypnogogic hallucinations? I do, its where you hear noises, or for some people imagine they see things, as you are drifting off to sleep.

Not really, I have had at time when very stressed experienced audio replays when falling asleep (but only once or twice) and I do "see" things but it's hard to describe because while I never doubted these things were "real" I also knew they were just produced by my brain. With visuals it is a bit like a cinema, but it's very fast, extremely fragmented and almost cartoon-like. Although sometimes it's a bit like a kaleidoscope. I don't think it would be possible to mistake these for "real" images as they are not very realistic at all! Wink

The realistic stuff is the bits where I "walk" around feeling and moving about in spaces ranging from early childhood to recent past (often including textures) but I have to consciously will myself around the place so again it could not be mistaken for "real".

It is odd because I always found these experiences comforting, natural etc. but at the same time I also knew full well they were things I did in my mind, not real things happening to me.

As I said above I seem to have learned quite a bit about how my memory etc. works and how my senses process stuff by the quality and type of these experiences.

There are sometimes more "confusing" half-dreams when I am very involved in something, for example I played the Star Wars card game with my ex-husband for several hours and I "played on" in half-sleep with the cards "on the duvet" most of the night. But even in those cases, I was aware that it was not "real", at least the next morning. There have been a fair few occurences when I complained about having been "awake all night" (with eyes open, doing stuff) even though my parents had checked in on me and I had apparently been fast asleep all night :?

I did spend a long time in this state almost every night as a kid and I still do about once a week but it is by far not as intense any more.

Quote:
Do you ever get the feeling when you are sitting down that you are asleep and have just woken up, even though you have been just sitting there, like a sleepy daydream?

Yep. Unfortunately, sometimes I have spaced out and missed my bus/train etc.  8)

Lili Marlene Wrote:
Sometimes I wake up thinking I have been doing the same thing over and over in my dreams, trying something and not being successful and trying again ...

Is it something that you had been doing (like the day before) in real life? I get that a lot when I have been doing a new task intensely for the first time (when I worked in a packaging company, everyone "put together cardboard boxes" all night for the first few nights Wink ).

Certain repetitive dreams do have "meaning" supposedly, but the only recurrent one I have is of an ice cream restaurant that doesn't exist  :?

Lili Marlene Wrote:
I know what you are describing, Noetic, and I get that too, but I think the dream type is a different thing, something to do with anxiety maybe. A bit like dreaming that you have OCD. :?

LOL that might be an interesting one to take to a shrink "Well, I have these obsessions and compulsions, but I only have them in my sleep". I wonder whether they would tell you to take imaginary Prozac in your dreams  :lol:

Lili Marlene Wrote:
I tried the test again and got scores from 1 to 4. I found it easiest to focus on the bottom yellow dot, as I don't see the dot next to the one I'm focusing on when I blink then.

I will have to try that [focussing on the bottom yellow one], that's a good idea!

I got a 2 on the test, once I figured out how it worked.

Thsi whoel thread is quite amusing to me, I had read some of Pettigrews stuff a while ago when I was researching BP, even had a short email corresponence with him, I hadnt known that he had linked his interhemispheric switching research to autism/other ASDs.  Perhaps I should email him some more and ask for details.  I can certainly believe that interhemispheric switching might be involved in ASDs, I recall a study I heard about someplace that linked certain traits of autism with disruption of communication between hemispheres, they managed to simulate some autistic traits in NTs by disrupting activity of the corpus callosum with TMS coils.  (disrupting a bridge between the hemispheres by using strong magnetic fields)
I should also mention, this test measures an oscillation in your visual processing, it is the theory of Dr. Pettigrew (with which I am inclined to agree) that this is controlled by a bistable oscillator that switches between hemispheres and not just eyes, this is not necessarily true, tho I am inclined to believe it.  It is difficult to explain, would take more time than I have.
Erm...   thats not quite what I meant...
I maent to say that this is a test which MEASURES a switch in visual processing, whihc might also mean that it measures the rate at which you swithc between hemispheres, but it might not.  The test Pettigrew used for his original study used two grid patterns, one of horizontal stripes and the other of vertical stripes, displayed alternating at 60 Hz (I think thats what it was, not sure), subjetcs had LCD shutter goggles so that one eye sees only vertical stripes, one eye sees only horizontal stripes.  This si called binocular rivalry.  The subjetcs push one of two buttons depending on whether they see vertical or horizontal stripes dominating, the rate at which they switch back and forth is measured.  Conventional theory dictates that this phenomenon is because there is an oscillation in the visual cortex.  Pettigrew's theory is that in fact it is not a visual cortex switch but rather an interhemispheric swithc, which could explain the binocular rivalry, and could also explain why bipolar patients (who were euthymic at the time of testing, i.e. not depressed or manic) tend to have slower binocular rivalry switching.  It is his theory that since they switch more slowly (assuming that these results do indicate and interhemispheric switch) it woudl be easier for their interhemispheric switching to get stuck in one position...  do a search on "interhemispheric switching" and "sticky switch"  and you will get much more info on all of this and other stuff form Pettigrew & company.

Nemidaelius Wrote:
I can certainly believe that interhemispheric switching might be involved in ASDs, I recall a study I heard about someplace that linked certain traits of autism with disruption of communication between hemispheres, they managed to simulate some autistic traits in NTs by disrupting activity of the corpus callosum with TMS coils. (disrupting a bridge between the hemispheres by using strong magnetic fields)


I have read that males generally have a smaller corpus callosum than females, so if the corpus callosum in autistics is less active than NTs that seems to fit well with the extreme male brain theory of autism.

I do wish more people would have a go at the brain switch test. It only goes for half a minute!

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