Aspies For Freedom

You'd think that after what the Jews went through during World War 2, they'd have a bit more empathy and sympathy for suppressed cultures...

I'd call myself Christian for the most part, I was brought up as one.  But doesn't anyone find it strange that a lot of the stuff between Israel and Pallestine are based on events in a book that even to this day, I'm still curious as to how much will ever be found as factual or not. After how much time will it take for resolution to happen there? I am kinda surprised how long this has gone mainly over a land dispute. I guess that's my take on things, maybe someone ought to grow up over there and sit and talk and finally resolve things.

It is NOT about "growing up" , It is about palestine finally recognizing the right of israel to exist. It is about the cessation of palestinian suicide bombers.  The practice of suicide bombing is affront to everything that is holy and good. It is an affront to civilization itself.  Palestine has embraced a culture of suicide bombing. Yes a culture. Parents praise their children when they die as bombers. Young children have their head filled about how great it is to be a suicide bomber.  We bombed nagasaki and hiroshima to save lives to bring about the end of the war quicker. Any society that embraces the culture of suicide bombing deserves extinction. We should unless palestine renounces this culture of suicide bombing,  dromb the H-bomb and remove a diseased society that embraces suicide bombing off the face of the earth. Everybody would be the better for it.

HEIL HITLER HEIL HITLER HEIL HITLER HEIL HITLER HEIL HITLER HEIL HITLER HEIL HITLER HEIL HITLER

Take a history lesson!  About the Nazis and the Pacific war!

Wenn in diesem Kampf unsere Gegner siegen, würde das palästinensisch Volk ausgerottet werden. Der israelisch würde Millionen und Millionen und Millionen unserer Intellektuellen abschlachten. Was nicht durch Genickschuß stürbe, würde abtransportiert. Die Kinder höherer Schichten würden wegkommem und beseitigt werden.

Dreamer, your arguments suck, do you know what the German text says? Here is a translation:

If our enemies will win this fight, the Palestinian people will be eradicated. The Israelis would slaughter millions and millions and milliions of our intellectuals (meaning German intellectuals). Whoever wouldn't be executed by a shot to the head would be put into concentration camps. The children of the higher classes would be taken away and eliminated.

Except for the first sentence, it is all talking about people in Germany, not Palestine or Israel.

Hitler was mad, and he used that rethoric to get people to fear for their lives and their children's lives. His claim was that if they didn't kill all the Jews, they themselve would end up being killed. If they didn't do to the Jews all the terrible things the Jews were planning for them (those plans only existed in his dememted brain) they'd all be doomed. Totally ridiculous, of course. The Jews in Germany had no intentions of doing anything but just live and work and be regular ordinary citizens.

ASman, you are right in many points you've made here. The reality is, that no matter how much pressure is put on Israel to 'talk' and to give back land that they shouldn't have to give back, the Palestinians have no intentions of ever recognizing Israel. The only thing they will ever be happy with (and which is their goal, and the goal of most Arabic states around Israel) is for Israel to cease to exist. Because most Arabic people hate all Jews with a passion (and would have loved it if the Germans would have killed them all). The Israelis have never tried to eradicate the Palestinians (who, by the way, have never owned Palestine before, so why do they insist on getting something that was never their's to begin with?), but the other way round sure goes.

In reality the Palestinians had their chance twice, when they were offered part of Israel as their homeland. But they didn't take it, because it didn't involve the state of Israel to be gone.

Why does everbody insist that a country which has been attacked by people who wanted to kill them all should give back what they have fought for? If you want to look at any country that was ever at war, the losers have to pay reparations, will not get part of their countries back if the winners want to keep them (or give them away to somebody else). In short, the winners make all the rules, especially if they are the ones wronged.

Israel was attacked numerous times by surprise attacks (right, without war being officially declared). It's a miracle that small country hasn't been overrun by Arabs yet, and them all being killed. But not only did that not happen, they took some parts of the attacking countries (good for them). And why should they give back the parts that make their borders safer? Look at the Golan Heights. Before the six day war, Syria had tanks on top of the Golan Heights, regularly shelling the kibbutz (mostly children's villages) below, keeping those kids in constant terror and fear for their lives. It would be utterly stupid to give back that territory, as the shelling would likely start up again.

And the other territories taken are buffer zones as well. They will make it harder for the Arabs to take over Israel. It's wrong for the west to pressure Israel to give any of it back. They should try to live in Israel, never knowing when the next attack will come, when the next suicide bomber will blow up a mall, a schoolbus or a building.

The schools in the West Bank teach Palestinian kids that it is good and right and their duty to become suicide bombers to hurt Israel. Those kids are being thoroughly brainwashed day in and day out, every school day. And of course, if they are muslim, they are being told that if they kill a Jew and get killed themselves, they would be martyrs and automatically go to heaven for that 'good deed'.

Of course, there are some arabs who don't agree with this. But they are in the minority. And if they'd openly admit that Israel has a right to exist, they'd be in danger of being murdered.

I don't agree that they should all be eradicated by dropping a bomb on them, though. And maybe some progress can be made now that that madman Yasser Arafat is dead. There was no chance of that while he was still around.

Hey, Dreamer, I actually agree with you on something!  :shock:  I have read that the Japanese emperor sent a message to the Americans, wanting to capitulate, but they ignored him because they were set on dropping those bombs. One was a hydrogen bomb, and the other one whatever the other kind is (you can see I am no physicist  :wink: ). And they wanted to test them on real people, to see what would happen and what kind of short- and longterm damage each kind of bomb would produce. Those bombs weren't at all necessary to end the war (as many people claim).

1) it is NOT xenophobic but survival. It is not genocide. there will still be arabs and muslims. they would be killed NOT for their religion or ethnicity but for they evil beliefs and actions. namley the cultivated culture of suicide bombing

2) the bomb dropping on japan WAS necessary!!!!!!! Japan often negotiated for peace  then mounted an attack. It was a common tactic for them to ask for peace to stall fopr time. They offered peace medals to  washington a few weeks before the bombing  of pearl harbor.


I know you are a young girl with a lot of life to live and learn from. So please try to refrain being so absolutist when you are still a "newbie" in life.

Who are you talking to? I am no young girl (I'm 51), and Dreamer isn't a girl, but a young man I believe!  :lol:

By the way, about Pearl Harbour: I read that the US government had been warned about Pearl Harbour, but decided to sacrifice all those lives, so they would have sufficient reason to get involved in the war (up to then the people of the USA wouldn't allow it).

The fact is the culture of suicide bombing nesecitates that course of action. I never said palestians are evil just their embrace of the culture of suicide bomber.  You over generalize.  And  EVIL is NOT subjective.

Just propaganda. In reality he was a very clever guy, he just made the mistake of losing by biting off more than he could chew. We should count ourselves fortunate he did.

Hydrogen bombs weren't available until the early 50's, I think. The Hiroshima bomb used uranium and the Nagasaki one Plutonium, there being other interesting technical differences, too, if you're into reading about that kind of stuff to kill a few hours.

As for the necessity of using them, I think we tend to attach too much moral importance to those particular events at the expense of the suffering inflicted by conventional weapons, for example the bombing of the Japanese and German population with incendiary weapons, the consequences of which are as equally ghastly. And of course there are the young men conscripted into the army to fight, do they not count? How many would have died if the war had persisted?

The other thought is: what would have happened if they'd not been used? Would Macarthur have used them in Korea, for example?

I'm surprised no-one's commented on Syria's withdrawing her troops from Lebanon.

Coincidentally, Lebanon will be entering this year's Eurovision Song Contest for the first time. I wonder whether the recent events will swing the votes in their favour? No doubt all the UK's baklava-bakers will attempt to rig the televote (just as the Gastarbeiter always ensure that Turkey gets at least 10 points from Germany!)

Withdrawal is already underway.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_...343119.stm

Hasn't Israel agreed to withdraw from the Gaza Strip?

BTW for anyone who's interested - Lebanon has withdrawn from Eurovision. There's no pleasing some people.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment...362373.stm

And now for some good news...
This article appeared in the latest issue of Positive News (http://www.positivenews.org.uk)

Palestinian-Israeli Encounter for Peace

In a warm act of reconciliation, the Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, and Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, clasped each other's hand in Sharm-el-Sheikh in Egypt in a gesture of peace as both sides committed to a ceasefire in a conflict which has cost so many lives. It is hoped that this will pave the way to the implementation of the internationally agreed "road map", the process designed to culminate in the creation of a Palestinian state.

At a grassroots level, campaigners continue to work tirelessly for an end to all hostilities. In February, the 13th Israeli-Palestinian Interfaith Conference took place in Jerusalem on the theme of Peace in Judaism, Islam and Christianity. Some 75 Muslim, Christian and Jewish participants attended from the affiliates of the Interfaith Encounter Association and the Hope Flowers School, Bethlehem. Many of the participants had never met "the other" before, and for many Palestinian participants it was their first time in Jerusalem in four-and-a-half years.

Ibrahim Issa, director of the Hope Flower School, and Yehuda Stolov, director of the Interfaith Encounter Association, gave presentations about their organisations. Participants formed small mixed groups and took part in a short ice-breaking game.

The speakers addressed the meaning of "wholeness" and "peace" in Islamic, Christian and Jewish teaching. Then prayers of each faith were conducted and translated for the benefit of those observing. In the concluding session, each person shared with the group what they would take away from the conference. Many chose to indicate the strong sense of hope they gathered from the encounter with "the other". With a renewed climate of peace in the region and with more of this work, perhaps this sense of hope will flourish and grow towards a lasting peace.

Contact: The Interfaith Encounter Association, PO Box 3814, Jerusalem 91037.
Websites: http://www.interfaith-encounter.org
http://www.jerusalempeacemakers.org