Aspies For Freedom

As discussed recently in the Diagnosis forum, I had decided that at this point in my life, an official diagnosis would be pointless and possibly even harmful.  But still, there's that nagging desire to know for sure.

A bizarre and twisted idea struck me while I was at work today.  There's a serious side, of giving the undiagnosed a chance to "prove themselves" to the officially diagnosed, and giving the officially diagnosed a chance to put the wanna-bes to the test.  (Everyone here seems very accepting regardless, but still I felt like sharing this idea.)  Any doubts from either side would be addressed right then and there.  This is definitely not for those who need the official diagnosis for reason of benefits or accomodations.  For me in particular, it's more for knowing once and for all, without generating a paper trail that could get the wrong attention.  But, it could be fun for all involved, too, and done right it could solidify the bonds of friendship and make for a stronger group.  So, I'm putting it here instead of the Diagnosis forum.

It should not be painful or humiliating.  It shouldn't be secretive, either.  It should just be a bit challenging, kind of like having to give a speech or take a calculus test, but nothing nasty or dreadful.

First, one should start out by taking a few of the online quizzes.  If most of them yield results of "positive" or "very likely", then move on to doing a self-diagnosis based on the DSM-IV.  If one makes it past that stage, then the next part would take the form of an interview before a group of aspies who are either officially diagnosed or have themselves made it through what I now describe below.  Keep this group as diverse as possible.

Basically, the interview would consist of the same kinds of questions that might be asked during an official diagnosis.  The candidate shows up and turns in printouts from the online quizzes and notes from the self-diagnosis.  Some take turns asking questions, while others observe reactions and take notes.

Be sure to include an activity that wouldn't bother an aspie very much but would drive an NT nuts.  Any ideas on this one?

Examples of what might happen:

- If the candidate says this started with their parents thinking they have AS, have them call their parents (on speaker phone) to ask if they still think (s)he has Asperger's.

- Ask lots of questions of the type, "Have you ever done this..."

- Empty a box of dominos on a table in front of the candidate and say "Do something with these", then observe how the candidate either arranges them or stacks them.

Of course, this involves actually having to meet in real life, in an appropriate time and place.  At a sci-fi convention would be almost perfect, because there's already a bunch of weird stuff going on anyway, that would make this look mild.  If you can reserve a meeting room for a block of time, set it up in the "hot seat" format with a chair facing the group.  Later, outside of the interview, observe the candidate from a distance and see how (s)he handles walking around and talking to people.,  Just don't do anything that would get somebody arrested or thrown out of the event.  The people who attend these types of conventions often enjoy a new and unusual challenge, so you might get a dozen or two candidates to sign up.

Finally, after all the candidates have been interviewed, the group conducting the whole thing convenes, discusses, and for each candidate, votes or whether or not they think that candidate is really an aspie.  If there's anything to sign at the end, make sure none of the signatures come from anyone with the authority to officially diagnose someone.  (I figure there might be occasional observers, e.g. a sociology or psychology student working on a thesis.)  The idea being, accurate but not official.  Let the candidates know their verdicts before everyone goes home from the event.

I figure that if a candidate really doesn't fit in, (s)he will be able to figure that out on their own during the process and decide not to continue.

Please, don't anyone freak out at the word "hazing".  I am perfectly aware that the real thing is bad stuff.  I just couldn't think of a better word at the time.  I posted this thread partly for humorous quality and also to get y'all thinking about alternatives, considering that the risks associated with an official diagnosis are holding back lots of people (myself included) who would like to know.

There's not one.  I was just trying to think of examples.

"Be sure to include an activity that wouldn't bother an aspie very much but would drive an NT nuts"...hmmm, personally I love cleaning deposits of grime out of tiny spaces, such as the heads of screws, the areas around the heads of screws, the outer edges of the tiny buttons on my TV remote, you name it, if you have anything with deposits of grime in tiny spaces, I will happily spend hours cleaning the item, spraying cleaning fluid into the crevices, digging out the grease and dirt with a steak knife or similar tool, contentedly thinking and dreaming.  Maybe there is career potential in this interest!

As for the test that involves walking around talking to people...well, there I might look rather NT.  (As long as said people are not young children or customers of any kind!)    I have definitely come a long way with social skills since childhood and even early adulthood, though my oddness is still obvious to  all who know me.

It sounds intriguing, this idea of diagnosis by peers; I just hope those of us with a mix of aspie and NT traits would still be welcome.  I have been troubled for a long time, even with an official diagnosis, by the fear of being "not aspie enough" to belong here.  Hopefully this peer-review would be an opportunity for people on all points on the autistic spectrum to learn from one another.    

The career portential might be in archaeological artifact restoration.

I didn't quite choose my words right.  I said something like "walking around and talking to people", but I suppose the talking to people part would be optional.  More like seeing how this person handles being in a crowd or participating in other events.

I read somewhere (probably on AFF) that when watching Monty Python or similar humor, Aspies and NTs both laugh but not always at the same parts.

As for someone with a mix of Aspie and NT traits, I wasn't suggesting the judges get back to the candidate and say "You're not Aspie enough.  Get out of here."  (I'm not dx'ed, so for all I know they might do that to me.)  They need to be honest, even if they think the results are not what the candidate wants to hear, but definitely welcoming no matter what the results.

Wow, I never thought of that!  *Resolves to Google "archaeological artifact restoration" to learn more about this never-before-considered option!*

Sounds good to me!  

CBC--I was thinking dental hygeinist for a career for you.

On the enneagram forum I post to, people often call out "faux fours" or "faux fives"--that is, somebody who purports to be one of these types (interestingly, it's usually 4s or 5s that get called out) but who isn't believed to be that type by others who consider themselves expert typers.  Of course, when you try to press people as to why or why not, they might refer to mystical entities like "vibes" or "gut feelings".   The concern here is that, in the absence of a set of necessary and jointly sufficient conditions for designating someone an aspie, the presence or absence of "vibes" might be the fallback response.  

I find it interesting, garmonbozia, that you are so uncomfortable with uncertainty regarding this label.  Because, whatever aspie characteristics you have or don't have, you are still, ultimately, yourself.

Why yes, that might work, except that I'd have to deal with actual people and talk to them and make them feel at ease and all that...not my strong suit.

*Thinks* I know, I could combine the two careers and be a dinosaur dental hygienist, restoring ancient teeth to pristine whiteness just in time for the big museum exhibit!  

Well, there you go!  Why, you could become the world's expert and be well paid and sought after..write your own ticket and all!

For me that's the worst bit of going to the dentist/ hygeinist.
If I could go somewhere that just let me walk in, lie down, they got on with what they had to do, then I walked out WITHOUT the chat and "nice -speak" it'd be great.

The dashboard, cupholders, and the area beneath the seats in my pickup would be like a wonderland for you.

At first, I felt silly with the idea of self-diagnosing.  It didn't seem fair to those officially diagnosed aspies who've had more trials and tribulations that I've had.  (Not that I haven't had mine.)  However, I'm gradually getting used to the idea, considering I'm not the only one, and that even some of the officially diagnosed have their doubts.  (Remembering the "Afraid you might be NT" thread somebody posted a while back.)  

I just think there ought to be another way to put it to the test if an official diagnosis is not in one's best interest, so the best I can think of is to make it like trying to join a club.

I like this idea, garmonbozia.  I'd prefer your "hazing" to just sitting and answering questions.  If there is Monty Python involved, I'm in.

I'd be interested in seeing what Python moments NTs laugh at as compared to those that Aspies laugh at.  Much as I adore Python, there have been a few sketches I didn't laugh as much at, or even at all.

<hugs>

Athie

I just vaguely remember reading that once, about the different parts of Monty Python.  Unfortunately, I don't think it included specific examples of scenes from the movies or Flying Circus.

Other movies also come to mind, for example Steven Soderbergh's Schizopolis.  I've got the DVD.  Two of my co-workers have seen it.  One (definitely an NT) said it was stupid.  Another (who I think might be an Aspie, always telling me about his hobbies) had alot to say about it when he brought the DVD back, so I guess he liked it.  That movie is not nearly as well-known as Monty Python's stuff, so it would be new to most people watching it.  I'm sure there are other movies that could be used, including some that can be found at Troma.  (As an aside, even when you're not testing people for Aspieness, it might be fun to have a bunch of people take the RDOS aspie quiz and then watch one of these types of movies.)

Back to the hazing ritual, is the use of sensory deprivation too cruel?  Let's say, for about an hour.  It wouldn't bug me one bit.  I'd just relax, zone out, and take a little vacation in my own imagination.  It would no doubt drive many others nuts.

Eat the dominos?  Kind of like, "I've got pica.  Here, let me prove it!"

Good thing I didn't mention the game Icehouse.  (Well, now I just did. )  Its gamepieces are little plastic pyramids.  ( looneylabs.com )  I'd hate to fall and do a faceplant into a table where people are playing that game.