Aspies For Freedom

Let me share something with you from Wikipedia.org and let me know via responses what you think.

Wikipedia reports (nerd) that a common theme in the popular culture is a nerd (certain social and motor coordination deficit, intellectual strengths and interests) seeking women above their status.

For added laughter at our expense, if the nerd is depicted as overconfident to the point of obnoxiousness, he gets a strong negative reaction.

Add this to other cultural anecdotes I've seen.  A bumper sticker sold on the Internet which I complained about, "Men are like parking spaces, the good ones are taken and the rest are handicapped"
That movie about the 40 Year Old Virgin.  And an alleged increase in suicide rates of single men over 45.  

When I figured this out I stopped going along with it.  The temporary lack of a relationship ceased to be character assassination.  It is not to say that loneliness does not hurt, but most of the anguish goes away once it stops being an indictment against one's character.

It also has to be said that a great many people don't buy into this either.  You may work at a very enlightened organization: I do.  

The issue then, becomes a war with the oppressive culture.  And has nothing to do with women or any woman at all.

If you rethink your feelings, you might turn them upside down if you consider the facts.  In my case, it is not true that I would be a poor life partner.  Properly motivated and for the right woman, I would be, because

a. the dedication I put into my occupation
b. the dedication I used to put into my studies, before the occupation,
c. both represent character that came from good old Mom.

Doing reading on the subject further demonstrates that I am committed to doing it right, at the right time.

It is going to be hard to make a difference in the big, bad culture.  Perhaps the better solution than fighting it and wearing yourself out is making yourself better than the culture, and seek to eliminate any lies you might believe, and make yourself better in the process.  On the other hand, we need to help the public become more aware of these things, but not to completely exhaust ourselves trying.

As a teacher, when the nerdy guys talk to me about how the girls reject them, I sometimes tell them this -- "You're going to make some lucky girl a great second husband. But first she's going to learn a hard lesson by marrying some 'cool guy' who will treat her like crap. That may not make you feel better right now, but 10 years from now you'll be in a happy marriage and the cool guy will be miserable, sitting in a bar with his buddies complaining about all women being bitches."

Hey Max. I never thought I would disagree with you on anything. You and I agree on many points. I will say that Girls to about 20ish seem to be about the cool guys. By the time they are in their 30's they seem to gravitate towards stable, secure, financial gents. (any physical traits are a plus). I have had a fifty year old hit on me who told me that crap really didn't matter at her age. So as a non-financially secure gent who is not physically appealing, ought I go hunting down the least predisposed market - 50+ unattached females?
Your theory is nice and hasd some merit but....well step into my world. LOL
No insult or slight meant either Max. I just experience life a bit less idealistic to your picture....if only your concept was attainable.

I'm a female nerd. :-). But I like girls. And the ones I like are usually straight.

Rossco, I'm talking on the basis of what I've seen again and again -- girls of 18-22 get married to "cool guys" who are assholes and by 27-30-something the girls (now women) are sick of the guy and ask themselves "What was I thinking??"

That's when the nice guy -- whom they probably considered a nerd in high school -- strats seeming like a very good idea.

That's my experience (watching them), too. Apart from the "married" bit – sometimes they just have sex and become single parents. So then you [or any nerd] can step in to be a step-parent.

Personally, I would bring down the age barrier a bit to the 40's. Some women this age haven't had kids and don't want any and others have kids who are grown up.

Some are still hung up on financial riches but others are "over" all the status and coolness thing and are more interested in a man with a good personality.

It's not so much looks that are important - it's having good personal hygiene and being able to still learn from life. I notice some guys become "boring old farts" from the age of 25 or so. (NB: I am NOT trying to insult any older men here as I've met plenty of older men who are not boring and I don't consider any of the older men on this forum boring)

I wonder what the female version of "boring fart" is as there's lots of them about the place too.

This helped me figure it out even better.

My guess is that when men and women are younger, they want more of a fantasy and less of a reality.

If you can talk a good game, you've got it made.
Not necessary that you are a bad person: a good person can put a better spin on good intentions and skill.  But walking the walk is not necessary at a young age.  

Received email some months ago from a Canadian woman allegedly seeking decent man for herself and her kids after a bunch of bad dudes.  But she wanted some coat and tie kind of person...

Sounds to me that a good many young ladies will give a son of a *** a break if he wears a coat and tie and can talk a good game.

I didn't email her, but I'd say, pay attention to behavior, not words.  Good is as good does.  But I was 36 when I read that, considerably older than the woman.

I've known that all along.  I guess we with AS know what really counts.  Too bad many people do not, yet.

A good deal of my women friends got married between 23 and 25.  The lot of us just saw the first one file for divorce, 13 years or so after the wedding.

That's another thing.  If the reality of marriage is not what was advertised, they might put up with it for a while, but generally get divorced sooner or later.

So where does this leave us gentlemen who do not lie because we know we'd make damned poor liars?

Single.  Regardless of character.

An awful lot of men and women need to grow up.  I know I've done a ton of it by the age of 37.  A great deal in the last month.   Heck I am better skilled (or motivated at least, or both) as a single now than my best friend married nearly 12 years, age 38.  I can spoon feed him his book His Needs, Her Needs by Williard Harley Jr. (Christians are not supposed to divorce but many do, five basic needs of most men and most women) and a book I sent him, What Women Want Men to Know About Women by Barbara de Angelis (case in point, women need to be connected, valued, and safe, his wife is not feeling safe when he is too depressed to go to work and pushes his luck as a union electrician).  Maybe I will offer to.
He was married at 26, she at 23.  I was there when they wed but women aged 23 to 25 almost never noticed me, then.  Three have noticed me since.

At least I am motivated enough to read two books.  

Fantasy versus reality.  Case in point.  First mistake I ever made as a boyfriend, when she demands and I quote "when are you going to propose to me?"  right now is not an acceptable answer.

She got her fantasy long enough for me to actually think it over and conclude it was going to be trouble for the both of us.  I didn't stay silent, I spoke out, because she is a friend and I really care.

I think my two options at that point were schedule the wedding or get lost.

I got lost rather than set her up for an episode of Divorce Court.

Not a lot of thanks from a good many young people when you have to give reality instead of a fantasy.

Well, that was 1997, and shortly after September 11, she wrote and said I had been a good friend.  Note the past tense.  I think that was an apology.  And a goodbye.

Just further anecdotal evidence about reality, fantasy, and what too many young people prefer to what.

It is even further evidence that I don't really have much of a problem.  But it takes two, and many people have a problem.

Interesting points GuessWho. Partly as a result of a very religious upbringing, I got the idea that the only way of having reliable male companionship was have a boyfriend and then get married. I know this seems very corny but I'm not the only one who's ever had this idea.

It took many years and a failed marriage to realise that I was never cut out for the traditional set up and would have been just as happy not getting married ever.

I wasn't worried about the "white dress" and all the trappings of a conventional wedding (too many women are) but I believed if I wanted children (which I did) being married was the only way.

Perhaps society has changed so much in the intervening years that people are questioning marriage as an institution. I think if the marriage vows were properly understood and carried out, there would be few divorces but I also believe that many people go into marriage without knowing exactly what they are letting themselves in for.

The Wikipedia article helped me in this specific manner:

We have an excellent organization.  I am in Web design.  We have a conference planning department.  

Speaking as a non-practicing M.A. in sociology, it would not be an accident if one or more of our fellow staff, especially women, were pleasant, sociable, intelligent, and, oh yes, a certain age and BMI.

It is entirely possible that one in Web design who has poor motor coordination, complications with nonverbal perception, and a very large amount of technical knowledge and interest in things like science, math, computers, might like a colleague in another department.  But don't get me wrong, be committed to self control and professional respect.  But suffer some emotional difficulty and not for the reason one might think.

Wikipedia said two important things:

1. article: unrequited love: falling upward is the tendency for one individual to be attracted to the superior qualities of another, and
2. article: nerd: the popular culture often depicts nerds as being lovelorn and seeking women of a superior status

And the truth sets you free

It is not personal at all.  I am feeling cultural oppression, but mind you, not from within the organization.  From the culture outside.

I am not physically attractive, and I am not going to be until I lose up to 130 pounds, perhaps one to two years.  I have even less hope of being socially well coordinated.  Social coordination confounds me here and now just as much as motor coordination did in the fourth grade.  I can approximate correct social behavior with a graduate degree in sociology if I apply my conscious mind to it and take a moment to consider choices of response.  But I will never understand the fine lines and curves of social interaction, nor will I learn it simply by being in it.

It is not personal.  Just as I thought.  No one at the office believes in the lies of popular culture.  But I have trouble not believing them if I do not understand the lies first.

It does not mean I am not lonely.  It is natural and it happens.  

And by reflecting on it, the correct answer is still to keep personal disappointments far away from the office.

By being lonely, I am like a ship with a severe hull breach.
By separating one disappointment out from one success, it is like a watertight compartment.
The ship is not in danger of completely sinking unless watertight integrity is compromised.

Over time I can pump out the water, learn to deal with life by myself and accept the challenges of this culture and the limitations of people in it.  I already know that far too many romantic relationships are built on the loose sand of spin and fantasy, and spin and fantasy is not our strong suite.  We tell the truth.  We will not lie.  We cannot lie very well.  Truth is the best policy especially when you can't be a convincing liar.

But although the truth sets us free, it does not buy a lot of attention from most people who would rather believe a fantasy.

I think it can be rewarding taking twenty some years to raise a kid to a full grown and hopefully balanced adult.  But realistically, there is only so much one can do with one's life.  

I believe wholeheartedly that it is a wonderful thing to be able to love the right person and watch [her] grow.  Kind of like my brother's hobby with plants, but inside each person is a whole universe of wonder.

Take it for granted you have to work to make a living.

I'd like to see how busy I am with a job and a woman before I think about kids.  If I am too busy I am not doing kids a favor by conceiving them.

The world is not going to run out of kids.

I think of having kids like voluntary military service.  Good, for some, depending on the circumstances, but a commitment once you start.

I don't believe the notion that 'good things comes for those who wait'. Why should any of the so-called 'nerdy guys' wait years for women to recognize the value that they already have? On my observations a socially able nerd will be able to find a partner at an early age if he tries hard enough. However - those nerds that have trouble navigating through this world socially may wait a extraordinary length of time. Much longer than their late twenties.

I don't see women, or men for that matter, changing their behavior just with the passing of time. Especially if they aren't compelled in some way. The all-powerful youth culture tells us that growing old is bad. I often encounter people in their 30s, 40s, and above who seem very immature. What it means to age has changed and maybe our expectation should change along with it.

I'd blame a lot of this on the rampant materialism in our society - possessions become more important than people and growing up is optional.

In my opinion it is not so much the passage of time itself that increases maturity. It is the obstacles and pain that starts the maturation process. The different responses to that pain lead to the deepening that many people experience that leads to growth and maturity by their 40's.

I would never want to be in my twenties ever again. 30's were ok shading into good by the late 30's. I am excited and looking forward to my 40's.

Pity the teens in 40 year old bodies. They have never faced their errors in judgements and never looked into themselves deeply to try and understand what their choices and decisions have created for them. They are stunted.

I have recently realized I am an aspie and I am still learning and realizing exactly how that has lead to some of the dead-ends I have travelled. It has been hard but on the other hand the difficulties and pains i have created in this life of mine with my choices and reactions have lead to the person I am today.

I would much rather be me, now, today as I am than a little 40 yearold child.

Life is good.

1. I am female.

2. My first-ever crush was on my piano teacher's shy, dorky, video-game playing son. He was average looking and had really bad posture.