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Full Version: Ominous Mixed Message on Virginia Shooter Cho's alleged Autism
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PITTSBURGH, April 19 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- AutismLink and Autism Center of Pittsburgh Director Cindy Waeltermann today issued a statement regarding the recent revelation that Virginia Tech shooter Cho Seung-Hui was diagnosed with autism as a child.
    "While the entire autism community in Pittsburgh and across the nation
are devastated by the recent events at Virginia Tech, we would like to
caution the public not to stigmatize children or individuals with autism.
Cho likely did not receive the help and support that he needed early on --
that is why early intervention is so important, and that is why places like
the Autism Center of Pittsburgh exist. The act of one individual should not reflect upon the entire autistic population.
   It is unfair to blame Cho's actions on autism when he was clearly
psychologically impaired and likely had another disorder in addition to his
autism.
His psychological evaluations apparently revealed a dark history that concluded that he was an imminent danger to himself and others and was also depressed.
    This is a wake up call that stresses the importance of early
intervention, research, and appropriate treatment strategies. Many strides
have been made in autism spectrum disorders and research has consistently  shown that when children receive the help that they need early on they are  more likely to become more adept at social and communication skills.
    Autism affects 1 in 150 children and is now the most commonly diagnosed evelopmental disability in the world. It is time to recognize autism for the epidemic it is."
I heard a expert say Schizophrenia a expert say Bi Polar and a expert say Autism so what is it? Sucks either way because not everyone is like him but the normal public does not think like that.
Okay -- THIS article has provoked enormous controversy on other sites. What do you guys think?:

The Real "Mental Health Lessons" from Virginia Tech


Focusing on Virginia Tech mass murderer Cho as a disturbed mental patient has led media analysts to ponder how he could have been more readily identified by the mental health system. But Cho is not someone who slipped beneath the psychiatric radar. Instead, he was frequently detected as a large object on the screen.

On separate occasions, he was involuntarily hospitalized, sent for psychological evaluation, and referred to the university counseling center. Consistent with getting him more psychiatric "help," experts have also opined on how he might have benefited from medication. These are all the wrong lessons.

The mental health system was fully alert to Cho's existence and to serious manifestations of dangerous behavior. A faculty member of the English department was so frightened by Cho's behavior that she insisted on having him pulled him out of class. The police and the counseling center were notified and ultimately Cho was given individual tutoring, instead of quick removal from the campus. Also, a number of students called the campus police, probably at least twice in regard to his stalking behavior. Furthermore, he had previously been involuntarily hospitalized in Virginia as a danger to himself and others.

The answer to vengeful, violent people is not more mental health screening or more potent mental health interventions.Reliance on the whole range of this system from counseling to involuntary treatment failed. There is not a shred of scientific evidence that locking people up against their will or otherwise "treating" them reduces violence. As we'll see, quite the opposite is true.

So what was needed? Police intervention. Almost certainly, the police were hampered in taking appropriate actions by being encouraged to view Cho as a potential psychiatric patient rather than as a perpetrator. It's not politically correct to bring criminal charges against someone who is "mentally ill" and it's not politically correct to prosecute him or to remove him from the campus. Yet that's what was needed to protect the students. Two known episodes of stalking, setting a fire, and his threatening behavior in class should have been more than enough for the university administration to bring charges against him and to send him off campus.

Police need to be encouraged and empowered to treat potentially dangerous people more as criminals than as patients. In particular, men stalking women should be handled as definitively as any perpetrator of hate crimes. Regardless of whether the victims want to press charges, the police should. Cho shouldn't have been allowed to get away with it a second time.

How would a police action have affected Cho? Would it have humiliated him and made him more violent? There's no way to have certainty about this, but anyone with experience dealing with threatening people knows that a good dose of "reality," a confrontation with the law, is much more of a wake up call and a deterrent than therapeutic coddling. Furthermore, involuntary psychiatric treatment is one of the more humiliating experiences in American society, and tends to make people more angry, not less.

Mental health interventions do not protect society because the person is almost always quickly discharged because his insurance coverage has run out or because mental health professionals, who as a group have no particular capacity to make such determinations, will decide that the patient is no longer a danger to himself or others. Indeed, in December 2005, when the university obtained a temporary detention order against Cho, a magistrate referred him for a mental health evaluation that found "his insight and judgment are normal." Need I say more about the hazards of relying on mental health screening and evaluation to identify dangerous perpetrators--even after they have already been threatening people?

Psychiatry's last resort for presumably violent people is involuntary hospitalization. Not only does it almost always lead to rapid release, it does not help the involuntary patient. Coerced treatment is not perceived or experienced as "helpful" by the recipient but as unjust bullying. If coercion accomplishes anything, it teaches the "patient" to stay far away from all providers of mental health services.

And what about drugs for the treatment of violence? The FDA has not approved any medications for the control of violence because there are no such medications. Yes, it is possible to temporarily immobilize mind and body alike with a shot of an "antipsychotic" drug like Haldol; but that only works as long as the person is virtually paralyzed and confined--and forced drugging invariably breeds more resentment.

Instead of offering the promise of reducing violence, all psychiatric drugs carry the potential risk of driving the individual into violent madness. For example, both the newer antidepressants such as Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft and Celexa, and the antipsychotic drugs such as Risperdal and Zyprexa, cause a disorder caused akathisia--a terrible inner sensation of agitation accompanied by a compulsion to move about. Akathisia is known to drive people to suicide and to aggression. Indeed, these tragic outcomes of drug-induced akathisia are so well documented that they are described in the most establishment psychiatric book of all, the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).

For the past fifteen years or more, I've been writing about the capacity of psychiatric drugs to cause mayhem, murder and suicide. In early 2005 the FDA finally issued a warning that antidepressants cause both suicidality and violence. For example, the FDA's new mandated warning label for antidepressants states that these drugs produce "anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity, akathisia (psychomotor restlessness), hypomania, and mania."

Note the reference to "irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity" in the label or package insert for antidepressants. That's a formula for violence. Note the mention of akathisia, another source of both violence and suicide. And finally, note the reference to mania, yet another drug-induced syndrome associated with violence and suicide.

As a psychiatrist and medical expert, I have personally evaluated dozens of cases of individuals driven to violence by psychiatric drugs of every type, but most commonly the newer antidepressants. One of the cases I evaluated, the Columbine shooter Eric Harris, looks the most like Cho. Both were very emotionally disturbed in an extremely violent fashion for a prolonged period of time. For the entire year that Eric Harris was evolving his manic-like violence, he was taking Luvox, a drug known to cause mania at a high rate in young people

In my book Reclaiming Our Children, I analyzed the clinical and scientific reasons for believing that Eric Harris's violence was caused by prescribed Luvox and I've also testified to the same under oath in deposition in a case related to Columbine. In my book the Antidepressant Fact Book, I also warned that stopping antidepressants can be as dangerous as starting them, since they can cause very disturbing and painful withdrawal reactions.

We have not been informed whether or not Cho was taking psychiatric drugs at the time he unleashed his violence; but even if he wasn't, he might have been tipped over into violent madness weeks or months earlier by a drug like Prozac, Paxil, or Zoloft. He could also have been undergoing severe drug withdrawal. Investigators should set a high priority on obtaining and publishing Cho's psychiatric drug history.

To focus on Cho as a "mental patient" or "schizophrenic" distracts from the real need to enforce security on college campuses, or in any setting, by reacting definitively to lesser acts of violence before they escalate. It also maligns people with serious mental problems, the vast majority who are, above else, inoffensive and overly docile.

The violence unleashed on the Virginia Tech campus should not lead to calls for more mental health screening, more mental health interventions, or more drugs. Instead, the violent rampage should confirm that psychiatric interventions don't prevent violence and instead they can cause it. Early on, Cho should have been confronted by the police and by university administrators with the reality that his behavior was unacceptable and he should have been suspended. In other words, he should have been treated as a criminal who was stalking women, and as an obviously threatening individual, not as a potential mental patient. These measures might have confronted him with sufficient reality to nip his violence in the bud and more certainly would have removed him from the circumstances that the he found intolerably stimulating, while also removing him from so many targets of opportunity.

My scientific papers describing medication-induced violence and some of my cases can be found on http://www.breggin.com.
IF Cho was autistic/Aspie, that is still irrelevant to the killings.  Autism/Asperger's does not cause this kind of violent insanity. Psychotic schizophrenia/paranoia DO.  

The "fact" that he was Aspie has no more to do with it than the fact that he was Korean, or the fact that it was a sunny day. Let the experts try to prove otherwise.

This is not about AS but, as I suspected from the moment I heard about the shooting, the media wants to make it about AS.
The Haunted Singer wrote this on his myspace and it kind of makes sense

Quote:
"Seems like the another dude lost it. The tragedy at Virginia Tech gets to me. But it gets to me on many levels.

"Certainly the death of teachers and students is hard to grasp, 30 something people murdered in cold blood. The loss for friends and family is immeasurable. The tragedy, however, doesn't end there. It grows every day as the news broadcasts like pigs in a troth, feast on vilifying the killer, creating a monster out a f***** up kid, while wallowing in the pain and tears of the victims families.

"Then there's that son of a *** George Bush Jr. and his repulsive entourage using the whole f****** filthy mess as a PR platform for his sickening spectacle.

"The shame of it all is that noone really bothered with all the signs of mental unhealth and emotional pain from the kid with the gun.

"Interviews with witnesses portay him as a weirdo. 'Weirdo.' A word used in preschool...

"He was human, OK? Mentally ill, but still human. A human being in absolute despair. Broken. Not right.

"I feel so much for all the families involved. Nothing but time can heal their loss. But I feel for that kid and his family too. The anxiety, pain, rage, fear, distain and alienation he must have carried, to finally make that choice is something no exploitive horror flick could ever do justice. The **** nightmare in his head finally exploding.

"I've carried hatred, a lack of trust, and paranoid delusions at the very core of me, wrapped around my heart like a wet acid blanket for a large part of my life. Believe me, it burns like a mutherf*****.

"Yeah, I'm one of the lucky dudes who found help in people around me. This kid, and as a result; the humans he murdered, and their families — didn't.

"It comes down to this; we need an end to the patronizing, self-sufficient groupings we get into as people. We need to see each other, not constantly simplify others and magnify our own happy go lucky bubbles. Superior, utilitarian elitism, the constant glorification of the well-adjusted, the 'normal,' the successful, the rich and the beautiful. Everything quantified, with a broken measuring stick.

"There is no boogeyman in all this. Only tragedy.


Note i have edited it because he starts going on about other things but what he has wrote makes sense the self sufficient groupings we get into as people we need to help each other not make mass elitism.

They're blaming his shooting spree on 'toxic injury' now.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/article...leID=24838

My Mother's going to have a field day with him being autistic.
Quoting post # 48, Gareth.

"Criminals can have many motives, mental illness being only one of them." Mental illness is cause; not motive. As I can see it there are three motives. 1. Intrinsic (or psychological); 2. Extrinsic (or material); 3. A mix of those two.

There are a lot of splendid pens on AFF. If there would be a thread of the sort that Rossco suggests in post # 56, I think that there ought to be a running schedule for who has the responsibility to produce a response to "the latest accusations of the media"; put it out in the forum to be read and signed by as many of us as possible before it is sent to the editors (or whom it may concern...
Wow, just when I thought there was no comedic potential left in loony Christian fanaticism, a truly hilarious tour-de-force appears...
SavedByGod, having read your post and Rossco's, I'll have to agree with Rossco and Batman55.

If you want to preach to people, please start a "Jesus Loves Me" thread all its own and confine your evangelical compulsions to that thread. Anyone who wants to join you in your religious zeal can find you there and the rest of us won't have to endure your smug condemnations.
"I just skim read  latest TIME mag article on Cho-didn't see any references about Cho having autism.."

It's possible that the blather  about Cho = AS didn't really catch on amid all the shitstorm of nonsense and hysteria. The conversations I've heard and been part of in the (ahem) NT community have made no references to Cho being autistic or Aspie. People heard so much crap, the Autism/Aspergers sub-plot seems lost in the jumble.

Whatever crap was media-generated in the days after the shootings, I really don't think the AS=killer concept will become part of the enduring mythology of Sueng-Hui Cho. It was just another lurid attempt to sensationalize...
"Skip the ban button, I will not be replying further to you or the other respondents on this thread in the future on this issue.  I shake off the dust under my feet."

I think that dust under your feet leaked out of your head.

While venting your foolishness at Rossco, comparing him to Cho, you may want to recall that it was Cho who -- like yourself -- shrouded his insanity with claims that he was Christlike. As crazies so often do. Religion has been a psycho-magnet since christomythology was spawned.

You're not the first lunatic here that promised to shut up and go away, but somehow seemed to troll on and on and on.

I request that the moderators help you on your way out the door by banning you.

I started this thread to discuss a deranged lunatic --  Sueng Hui Cho. If you want to be the deranged lunatic of note -- and I'm not denying that you qualify -- I am telling you again to go start your own thread so that we can avoid it... and you.
Martin Bryant certainly had major issues, but I seriously doubt that AS was one of them. He must be one of the few "spree" killers who didn't take themselves out as well as all their victims. From recent reports about his suicide attempts in jail, some remorse for his actions must finally be kicking in.
When it comes to how the perpetrator chooses victims and locality there seems to be some major differencies between all these mass murderers or spree killers.

March 1996. TW Hamilton picks a pre school full of kids 5-6-7 years old. Kills their teacher and 15 kids before he takes his own life. The reason why he chooses this place has everything to do with what type of guy he was. It was a very planned and controlled act and it became the peak.  

I think it's easier to see similarities between ViTech and Dunblane (Hamilton's choice of location) than between ViTech and Tasmania (Bryant's choice; don't remember what the town was called).

Noetic Wrote:

nyanchan Wrote:
Bottom line. People love to connect AS to some kind of psychopathy, and to say that this makes people violent. Of course that's bullshit.

Yes!

The fact that AS was originally called "Autistic Psychopathy" probably doesn't help. "Die Autistischen Psychopaten" was the name of Asperger's seminal paper on the four boys he described in detail.

Of course psychopathy in those days was a term used interchangeably with personality disorder, but most people nowadays wouldn't know that.
Yes!


A more holistic view would be more useful. Now it seems like it is Asperger/Autism that is on trial (the yeast in the bread, sort of).

Noetic Wrote:

ichtms Wrote:
A more holistic view would be more useful. Now it seems like it is Asperger/Autism that is on trial (the yeast in the bread, sort of).[/color]

Indeed but then there is little agreement over *exactly* what AS is (among diagnosticians, researchers etc.), it's hard to expect the public to be able to do what hundreds of researchers can't even agree on.


I agree fully. It's mob mentality and there are always (hopefully not) going to be people coming out of the wood work to offer us easy answers.

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