Aspies For Freedom

Full Version: Virginia Tech Massacre: "He Was a Loner"
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Watch the media create their Monster:

1) Racists are saying: "He was not one of us" -- he was not white

2) Xenophobes are saying "He was from another place " -- he was Korean

3) and now, of course, that most suspicious of human behaviors in this headline:

'He was a loner"
"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

A loner... at an engineering school... hmmm.... verrrrrry suspicious....

Who will be the first journalist/sensationalist to speculate that the mass killer was Aspie?
"almost every such character has been described as loners."

... there's a thread around here somewhere about "Aspies = Serial Killers"

This is all feeds into the great fear and prejudice toward "loners."

And the fact is, just as often after some ugly murder all the neighbors say, "I can't believe it -- he was such a nice guy, always so friendly..."
'the world is black' fits this.
This is really morbid, but apparently the guy wrote a couple of short plays in a creative writing class -- plays that dealt with really hateful, vengeful violence.

AOL news has posted them: http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/c...uis-plays/
This guy was pretty sick in the head.

how she twists and twirls Wrote:

Max the Bear Wrote:

This is all feeds into the great fear and prejudice toward "loners."


Yes.

i've always been annoyed by this-- people are "loners" for all kinds of reasons, and many of the less social people I've known have actually beeen more mentally and emotionally healthy than the gregarious extraverts. less dependent on other people for emotional stimulus and affirmation.

contrary to the stereotype, there are about the same number of extraverted, charismatic murderers as quiet, standoffish ones. think Charles Manson, f'r instance.


As well as Ted Bundy.

Callista Wrote:

Quote:
I highly doubt he was an aspie though, he was clearly severly mentally ill, bitter and disturbed.

Or he could've been a "severly mentally ill, bitter and disturbed" Aspie... They aren't mutually exclusive, y'know.


I still don't think too many Aspies become sociopathic, though.

I think it's much more common for us to be bitter and envious of the smoothly operated, superficial NT world, and NOT really do anything about it.  Generally-speaking, we're overly sensitive folks and not "set-up" properly for wanton acts of violence against others.

I shall admit to having a bitter, almost "paranoiac" distrust of folks in my age group, especially college students.  It may be because I lack theory of mind and just "don't follow what they're doing," and also the fact that everyone says "I should be like that"... well all this makes me quite bitter.  But like just about everyone, NT or AS, it's not possible for me to inflict my internal anger/bitterness on other people.

I think most people occasionally have moments where they "think dangerous thoughts," but they don't have a genuine sociopathic thinking that might spur them to action.  There's a "natural blockade" for such things.

If I have to express myself or "get out the anger," I draw pictures and write fiction and so on, and it is a perfect outlet.  Clearly there's also a good reason why some folk are so inclined, and so skilled at writing horror.. there's that "release" they get which helps "keep them sane," and I believe some writers on AFF know about this, as well.

Nate Wrote:
I dunno if this is the case for everyone with As but for me I can't be mad that long. Infact it took me a while to understand why everyone around me would stay mad much longer then me, I usually get over the signifigant brunt in 10 minutes or something and then feel mostly or all better, but people around could stay made for hours and even days and weeks, or beyond.

My step mom abused me, whooped me with a belt and never called me by my name but instead called me dumbass, like "Hey, dumbass go get me a coke." And all it did was was make my self asteem go way down and me think of myself as lesser, but I never could hold a grudge. Even now I can't, I just hope she can go through some kind of situation to change her ways, especially for her grandchildren's sake.

As far as my experince though its impossible for me to hold a grudge, I just cant be mad long enough, actually I got in trouble sometimes because I could be fine and even laugh at something very shortly after being angery but the people around me were still mad and thought I was being a smartass.

Actually I cant count the times I've been accused of being a smartass or playing dumb, knowing exactly what im doing, or being a know it all. So annoying, the whole time I was growing up, it was so annoying because no one ever seemed to pay attention to me and just discounted alot of things as me being a smartass or a know it all or whatever.

Thank god now that I'm an adult at least my parents dont discount what I say like they used to, though, in my dads case, anyway, hes changed too, my stepmom stole his money and kicked him out and stuff and I think that changed him some so one way or another hes nicer in general and nicer to me. I still dont completely understand some of those emotions though that people go through.

Anyway, in all this ambling, my whole point was, is it even possible for an Aspie(without any other condition) to even stay mad enough long enough, to even get anywhere near this point of action? For me I know it would be impossible, but I don't know if its like that for everyaspie.


I don't agree, I have held "mild grudges" toward certain people for years at a time, and I tend to be a generally angry/envious person.

But I wouldn't be able to get to any "breaking point" that would include horrible things.  Instead I use creative endeavors as an outlet for the continual anger/envy problem I have.

I certainly have some bitterness in me, and I'm sure a lot of Aspies both on AFF and not, also have some bitterness.  A lot of us have been bullied and "left out" in our time, and often that tends to make a person bitter and distrustful of others.  And so we make it a habit to limit our interaction within the ubiquitous NT herd, because this is often a troubling, confusing, "better-than-thou" world and we don't like feeling marginalized or insignificant... many NTs make us feel "left out" and it's not a pleasant feeling for us.  So we prefer our own company a bit more than "competing" in the herd... and I don't see anything wrong with this.  It's a preference for many Aspies--not a sickness, by any measure.

And to boot, there's a not-so-subtle line between naturally occurring, internal human anger and the ability to commit horrible acts against innocent people.  I happen to have a good heart, and most everyone who ever interacts with me knows this automatically.  I suppose I'm a "loner" in general, I don't like being in groups of people and so on, but one on one with those I know well, I'm quite a "beautiful mind."

arthurdent Wrote:
Loner, yes. Aspie, no.

Aspies have trouble reading people.

Cho appeared to have very little trouble reading people. In fact, he read people all too well, and knew exactly how to scare the living daylights of them. That's not Asperger's. That's serious, deranged, bad-seed sociopathy.


I agree. It was calculated maliciousness on his part, not just a moment of hot-headed rage.

rossco Wrote:
The guy was crazy. Crazy people do crazy things for crazy reasons. We are not talking about an autistic person being autistic or doing autistic things. Crazy.


Or, you know - rational people do evil things?

rossco Wrote:
"You have vandalized my heart, raped my soul and torched my conscience. You thought it was one pathetic boy's life you were extinguishing. Thanks to you, I die like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations of the weak and the defenseless people."

Yeah maybe he was rational.


Uh, your point? I never said he wasn't a ***.

rossco Wrote:
The guy was a ***. He was a cold-blooded, remorseless killer. I believe he was as mad as a cut snake.
If you honestly believe he was in full possessions of his sensibilities, reasons and sanity and in the face of everything we have been told believe he was rational, and you want to believe he was just a rational but evil man...cool.
No worries. I will not argue. He was just a pissed off, evil, rational *** with a couple of guns, itchy trigger fingers and a lot of moving targets to kill? OK I'm fine with that.


Rational (as in, non-"crazy") people aren't necessarily good people. Merely choosing to do the wrong thing doesn't mean you're irrational and suffering from a mental illness, it just means you made an unethical decision. If all it takes to be "crazy" is to knowingly make an immoral choice... well, that's a slippery slope, isn't it? That would mean craziness is in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure some uber-vegetarians out there would consider my meat-eating to be unethical behaviour and the motives behind my choice to be rather lacking in reason. Am I crazy because I don't feel any of the remorse or guilt that some would feel whilst snacking on a burger?

The only difference between people like Cho and morally ambiguous (but non-psychopathic) mortals such as you and I is how extreme their behaviour is. Their choices are grossly unethical ones, which go beyond mere moral ambiguity and violate accepted social norms to such an extent they cannot live in harmony with the rest of society. People vary a huge amount in their levels of impulsiveness, remorse, guilt, empathy; some people have a much stronger conscience - whatever that is - than others. The mere strength of your conscience doesn't make you crazy, but it can make you bad... depending on what choices you willingly make and the consquences those choices may have on other people.

Max the Bear Wrote:
"I recall a few teachers from my past that were simply jerks, just like the bullies"

YES! I have seen this so many times -- teachers who support or join in with the bullies because they (the teachers) are either afraid of the bullies, or because the particular bullies are the "cool kids" and the teacher wants the cool bullies to like him.

How pathetic is that?

In either case, the teacher is responding like just another stupid kid -- afraid to stand up to the bullies or currying the bullies' favor. They think the class will 'like" them if they join in on picking on a victimized kid. It makes me so angry... I have no respect for that kind of "teacher."


I have seen this happen occasionally, as well  Sad

Noetic Wrote:

Beammeup Wrote:
(g) excessive preoccupation with fantasy and introspection;
(i) marked insensitivity to prevailing social norms and conventions.


The first of these is only in the European description of Schizoid PD, the American one seems to describe a much "colder", more cold-hearted/callous type of person, whereas the European version is more a personality type somewhere between AS and "normality".


I don't think you're giving AS enough respect, even if you are citing research that leans toward "AS more an unusual personality type"...

AS is a separate entity and should not be considered "between" anything and nothing should be speculated as being "between Asperger's."  It's not between anything.. end of story.

It's a part of something... autism.  It's not a mild form of autism (although personally I'm sorta okay with that concept) it's still autism... just a "different type" of autism than the classic type.

Max the Bear Wrote:
Oh, of course... now here's Psychiatric Expert #286 on CNN saying Cho was a paranoid pyschotic because he was a repressed homosexual.

We definitely need to blame this on the gays, as well as the Aspies and the Koreans.

Now we just need two more experts to claim he is Jewish and Black...


i dont know if i should laugh.
its..
i dont know i lost my words.

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