Aspies For Freedom

aspergers is not a tragedy. and in fact we are not ignored. we are supervised, bullied and discriminated.

tenaciouscj Wrote:

AspergerWonder12 Wrote:

aspergers is not a tragedy. and in fact we are not ignored. we are supervised, bullied and discriminated.

Here is a classic example from another forum as to how even aspies are bullied by other aspies. I hoped to make a positive difference on the other forum but the ruling clique obviously had other ideas. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt50841.html

Meh. It seemed pretty tame to me. It was just the usual chat site bickering, you know, splitting hairs over semantics sort of stuff.

As an aside, who was that loser who'd posted 8,888 times in the past two years? Sheez , get a life.

I've heard a bit of bad press about Wrong Planet on this site. I wonder if there’re Wrong Planet regulars bagging AFF over there.

Johanna Wrote:

ethereal Wrote:

Tigger_the_Wing Wrote:

Before staring a fight spread across several threads, I would humbly suggest you first click on Ethel's name, click on 'find all posts by this user' and read everything she has to say on a variety of subjects.

I have done similar in the past; it gives a new member a chance to catch up on long-standing 'personalities' on the forum and gives you an insight into their true character.

Yes, but a new member may read all of a long standing member's posts and agree with most of them but still clash over one or two things. Why should a new member have to humbly bow before an established member? Aren't we all equal here?

Good point, Ethereal, but unfortunately, it seems that if a member has been here for a certain amount of time, then they are automatically Jesus Christ and the newbies are chopped liver. As George Orwell wrote, "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." By the way, I do clash with some things. PM me for more details.

Who gave older members permission to cyber-club newbies?  It is the height of rudeness to demand newbies to bow and scrape before the established member.  And as for the question "aren't we all equal here?"  Apparently not and obviously not.

The question screaming to be asked is:  Just because a person has made two or three thousand posts in this forum, what gives them the right to behave like a bully?  And why is the bully ENCOURAGED to bully ONLY new members?  Is there some unspoken rule in the forum that if you need to bully someone, you must only bully the newest members?  Is there so much pent up hostility in this forum that newbies are seen as target practice?  On the other hand, it is probably a good idea for newbs to frame their comments in a way which neither attacks older members nor invites attack.  And that would appear to be a skill one could use to one's advantage in the real world.

Heh. Better quit before I find  cyber-noose around my neck.

Look through my posts, analyze them, and send me a PM telling me how exactly I harrassed Ethel. Ugh. You obviously did not read the definition of keep your pants on that I gave. There is nothing impolite about telling someone to chill out.

Thank you for the advice, EvilZakkie. About me just responding with angry posts, I actually made a post saying that Ethel persuaded me about GF/CF diets being beneficial. Ethel, not to be rude, but please read what EvilZakkie wrote you before you do more flaming.

skyblue1 Wrote:

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Parvati Wrote:

Who gave older members permission to cyber-club newbies?  It is the height of rudeness to demand newbies to bow and scrape before the established member.  And as for the question "aren't we all equal here?"  Apparently not and obviously not.

The question screaming to be asked is:  Just because a person has made two or three thousand posts in this forum, what gives them the right to behave like a bully?  And why is the bully ENCOURAGED to bully ONLY new members?  Is there some unspoken rule in the forum that if you need to bully someone, you must only bully the newest members?  Is there so much pent up hostility in this forum that newbies are seen as target practice?  On the other hand, it is probably a good idea for newbs to frame their comments in a way which neither attacks older members nor invites attack.  And that would appear to be a skill one could use to one's advantage in the real world.

Heh. Better quit before I find  cyber-noose around my neck.

This isn't an "oldies vs. newbies" situation. Here's what I see (and I'm not taking sides here, just trying to sum things up so we can start moving towards mutual understanding).

First off, Johanna, as an enthusiastic new autistic rights campaigner, made some very strong blanket statements about GF/CF diets & the psychological state of aspies that would choose to take a cure if offered.

Next, as someone to whom these blanket statements did not apply, Ethel called both these statements gross overgeneralisations (paraphrasing).

Johanna saw someone disagreeing with these statements, decided that this meant they were against autistic rights, and escalated the argument.

Ethel responded to angry posts with her own angry posts.

...and here we here.

This is why Tigger gave the advice she did to Johanna - reading Ethels previous posts will give a greater insight into Ethels real point of view, which is entirely in favour of autistic rights. It isn't about "bashing the newbie" at all - it's about suggesting a method that will lead to greater understanding.

Here's my advice:

Johanna: It's great that you're as passionate as you are about these issues, but there is much more to these things than a "for" or "against" position. If someone disagrees with you, it's best to ask them questions about what their opinion actually is before you blast them for it - and you might find that your opinions are closer than you think.

Ethel: I agree that the blanket statements made were completely wrong, but a new member isn't going to understand all the nuances of these debates within a few days of being here. We're going to get lots of new members wanting to "fight against the oppressors" straight away, and it doesn't always mean that they're going to be looking for a fight forever. Give things a couple of weeks, and see what happens.

Hope that helps...

actually whether you are a newbie or not it appears if you are not in the cligue which pervades this forum your ideas can be trampled on by folks who ask for tolerance and acceptance from others especially Nt`s, but are not willing to accept or tolerate the ideas of others. In other words you are free to be , say or believe what you wish as long as it is " the way I feel or think " .
I am now suicidal because of attacks and misunderstandings of things I have recently posted. I am used to being rejected by NT`s. But to be rejected by my own kind is a little more than I can stand. especially when I was just trying to be helpful.
Please tread carefully here.

Skyblue1....I am so sorry you have been hurt. What you said here speaks for myself and perhaps others fairly new to this forum. From the moment I stepped into the forum, the hostility was so thick you could cut it with a knife. I'm not sure that is a bad thing. The interaction between NTs and aspies/auties sometimes escalates rapidly into unresolvable hostility. What's happening in this forum has the potential of revealing what actually is at the root of such hostilities. I'd like to make a post without begging people not to attack me or groveling for peace. My life now is intensely painful and I haven't even gotten to square one in asking for help. I haven't yet seen the forum as a friendly place. It seems to me that new members must go through a kind of hazing or initiation in this forum. I hope you will see that there are some forum members who wish you the best and want to support you.

EvilZakkie....Your 'advice' to Ethel provided insight into the hidden mechanics of this forum and the general tone of your posts has been a welcome breath of fresh air. When you said "a new member isn't going to understand all the nuances of these debates within a few days of being here" --- I realized that whatever was in this forum before I registered ....isn't really my prob or the prob of any noob. And we sort of get caught in the cross-fire without realizing we're in a battle zone. Of course I can't speak for all noobs but in my own case I am simply in so much pain I was hoping to find some understanding or consolation. Instead I saw people being accused of being trolls and others being bullied for framing their questions or comments in a way that was seen to be clumsy or offensive or stupid. I just wanted to thank you for your sweet spirit. If more of the older members would follow your lead (in sincerity and peace- making skills), us noobs might be able to feel some relief in this forum, instead of feeling scapegoated for things which existed in here before we registered. Some of us noobs are totally clueless and certainly don't mean to offend anyone. We just desperately need some empathy...and you have given me hope to keep trying. However, if this forum makes others besides Skyblue1 suicidal, I will reconsider.

I can relate to your situation, Parvati. I joined so that I could be around people that share my viewpoint and have reasonably pleasant discussions. But instead, no matter how politely I try to write something, someone somehow finds it wrong and writes me an angry post instead of telling me politely... To you, skyblue1, I will try to tread more carefully.
[Message to Parvati: You have a PM in your inbox from me]

atypical Wrote:

Johanna Wrote:

I can relate to your situation, Parvati. I joined so that I could be around people that share my viewpoint and have reasonably pleasant discussions. But instead, no matter how politely I try to write something, someone somehow finds it wrong and writes me an angry post instead of telling me politely... To you, skyblue1, I will try to tread more carefully.
[Message to Parvati: You have a PM in your inbox from me]

The viewpoints of those on here at AFF are all over the place. I think that it is as common misconception that anyone will share anyones viewpoint. As far as reasonably pleasant discussions, they do exist. It is tricky for some who focus on specific wording and language. Also, you have to be accepting of varying writing styles. Sometimes emotions are high and aspies or non-aspies just misunderstand the tone meant in the written word. I do wish that people in general asked questions first, to clarify, instead of jumping to thinking the worst or putting words into peoples mouths. Anyone can have a bad hour, day or week though, so give it some time. You'll see, most people on here are very, very nice.

Also, a main aspect of this site is not just pleasant conversation. Activism and advocacy abounds. People that are caught up in the most recent injustice sometimes are not feeling all that pleasant or conversational when just coming out of the trenches. I hope you understand what I mean.

Hmmm...to think about it, I have been having reasonably pleasant discussions in some forums. I also got a nice PM from Cardinal. I think I've regained some faith in AFF. Thank you, atypical!

Grumpy_Old_Rossco Wrote:

Johanna Wrote:

Good point, Ethereal, but unfortunately, it seems that if a member has been here for a certain amount of time, then they are automatically Jesus Christ and the newbies are chopped liver. As George Orwell wrote, "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." By the way, I do clash with some things. PM me for more details.

Johanna I am happy to take you to task for this. I would like you to state how in any way this was constructive and not meant as a slight against all established members here. I have not seen or read any posts from you before and you are happy to taint me and others I know and think of fondly so? What's it to be? I would like you to this VERY hard on the answer you give to this question and your reasons for giving it and what you want to accomplish.

I do not mean to say that all established members are bad. The only thing I am against is what seems to be unequal treatment based on how long the person has been here. I'm not saying anything bad about people who have been here. It just seems that whenever someone joins, they're treated badly. I am sorry that you think that I have tainted you and your friends. I really would like to get to know you better and have pleasant discussions with you here at AFF.

Thank you very much, Korrigan. It's nice to have someone who is on my side. Do you want to hear something nice. Warning: a feeling of being touched (emotionally) is inevitable.

Thank you Rossco. I'm glad you understand what I really meant by that. And I'm glad that you offered help in case someone unfairly picks on me. But I'm a little happier with the tips. Someone commenting on aspieweb.net said you were rude and obnoxious, but I don't think you could be all that bad if you're so understanding and so ready to offer help in case someone needs it.

Max, I just said I didn't think Rossco was bad. Besides, sometimes, you've got to experience things for yourself instead of listening to other people. Don't you think I know that by now? I may not be an adult yet, but that doesn't mean that I'm entirely stupid.

OK, let's all have some frosting like Korrigan said. *Hands out bowls of frosting* Hmm... *Takes bite and thinks* This frosting is nice, but it should have a nice drink to go with it. How about root beer? *Hands out root beer*

Quote:

Wrong to eliminate autism? You would rather have children be unable to speak and care for themselves? You would rather have them be easy targets for abuse and neglect?

Get a grip. And before you accuse me of being a horrific Nazi neurotypical who cannot fathom your epic suffering - guess what? I have Asperger's. Consider your 'omgyouzdununnastandmahsorrowww' *** useless.

However vehemently you despise being associated with an image of weakness, most full-blown autistic children are disabled and need help. Do not attempt to tell me that the four-year-old autistic child I mentor who is still in diapers and cannot utter a single unbroken word is 'unqiue'. Autism of that nature is a tragedy, moron. Reat it again - tragedy. Nothing pisses me off more than a whiny Aspie that ignores the severity of autism to protect his or her pwecious widdle insecurities.

What? Did someone tease you for stuttering when you were young? Did someone give you a widdle wedgie? Grow the *** up, please. Look at it this way - at least you can speak and feed yourself, unlike those autistic children you like to ignore.

Hate to say it {/sarcasm}, but the letter IS right. Big Grin [/size]

AspergerWonder12

There is No Self

Parvati

Johanna

Johanna

Parvati

Johanna

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Johanna

Mosse