Aspies For Freedom

Full Version: Got Flamed By Another Aspie
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Parvati Wrote:
Heh. Better quit before I find  cyber-noose around my neck.


Yeah, quit.  You and Johanna both.  It will be easier.  Really.  

Quite frankly, we do not need the drama.

Johanna Wrote:

Korrigan Wrote:
Yeah, quit.  You and Johanna both.  It will be easier.  Really.  

To Korrigan: I'm not having a go at you, I just humbly request that you not flame me and Parvati.


I am going to have to say it again, in case you did not understand me the first time.  Quit.  

You have come on here, posted on about 10 threads "all for the benefit of google searchers" and flamed all over some long standing members of the forum.  In fact, I believe it was in your first 2 or 3 posts that you told Gareth (you know, the site owner!) to "keep his pants on".  Either learn to get along or leave (and take your friend Parvati with you.)

Did you get it now?  Or did I need to repeat myself again?  

I would hope you are not calling me a bully.  I promise you I am not bullying you.  I am, however, being protective of the forum, and of my friends, who you seem to feel the need to flagrantly insult repeatedly.

Please apologize to Ethel for your repeated assaults.  You were not polite.  

Please apologize to Gareth for telling him to "keep his pants on" rather rudely.  That was not polite.

Lastly, please stop running rampant and being rude to people.  Stop being impolite.  

That will solve your problems.  I am nearly sure of it.

Johanna Wrote:
Look through my posts, analyze them, and send me a PM telling me how exactly I harrassed Ethel. Ugh. You obviously did not read the definition of keep your pants on that I gave. There is nothing impolite about telling someone to chill out.


Whether or not you believe your behavior to be rude is not all that relevant.  Obviously other people feel that you have been rude.  That is one of the things that you learn as you grow up.  Whether or not you feel that you are being rude to someone is not nearly as important as feelings of the person with which you are interacting.  

Oh, and I do not PM unless it is with friends.

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Parvati Wrote:
Who gave older members permission to cyber-club newbies?  It is the height of rudeness to demand newbies to bow and scrape before the established member.  And as for the question "aren't we all equal here?"  Apparently not and obviously not.  

The question screaming to be asked is:  Just because a person has made two or three thousand posts in this forum, what gives them the right to behave like a bully?  And why is the bully ENCOURAGED to bully ONLY new members?  Is there some unspoken rule in the forum that if you need to bully someone, you must only bully the newest members?  Is there so much pent up hostility in this forum that newbies are seen as target practice?  On the other hand, it is probably a good idea for newbs to frame their comments in a way which neither attacks older members nor invites attack.  And that would appear to be a skill one could use to one's advantage in the real world. 

Heh. Better quit before I find  cyber-noose around my neck.


This isn't an "oldies vs. newbies" situation. Here's what I see (and I'm not taking sides here, just trying to sum things up so we can start moving towards mutual understanding).

First off, Johanna, as an enthusiastic new autistic rights campaigner, made some very strong blanket statements about GF/CF diets & the psychological state of aspies that would choose to take a cure if offered.

Next, as someone to whom these blanket statements did not apply, Ethel called both these statements gross overgeneralisations (paraphrasing).

Johanna saw someone disagreeing with these statements, decided that this meant they were against autistic rights, and escalated the argument.

Ethel responded to angry posts with her own angry posts.

...and here we here.


This is why Tigger gave the advice she did to Johanna - reading Ethels previous posts will give a greater insight into Ethels real point of view, which is entirely in favour of autistic rights. It isn't about "bashing the newbie" at all - it's about suggesting a method that will lead to greater understanding.

Here's my advice:

Johanna: It's great that you're as passionate as you are about these issues, but there is much more to these things than a "for" or "against" position. If someone disagrees with you, it's best to ask them questions about what their opinion actually is before you blast them for it - and you might find that your opinions are closer than you think.

Ethel: I agree that the blanket statements made were completely wrong, but a new member isn't going to understand all the nuances of these debates within a few days of being here. We're going to get lots of new members wanting to "fight against the oppressors" straight away, and it doesn't always mean that they're going to be looking for a fight forever. Give things a couple of weeks, and see what happens.


Hope that helps...


actually whether you are a newbie or not it appears if you are not in the cligue which pervades this forum your ideas can be trampled on by folks who ask for tolerance and acceptance from others especially Nt`s, but are not willing to accept or tolerate the ideas of others. In other words you are free to be , say or believe what you wish as long as it is " the way I feel or think " .
   I am now suicidal because of attacks and misunderstandings of things I have recently posted.  I am used to being rejected by NT`s. But to be rejected by my own kind is a little more than I can stand. especially when I was just trying to be helpful.
   Please tread carefully here.

Johanna Wrote:
Thank you for the advice, EvilZakkie. About me just responding with angry posts, I actually made a post saying that Ethel persuaded me about GF/CF diets being beneficial. Ethel, not to be rude, but please read what EvilZakkie wrote you before you do more flaming.


Johanna, not to be rude, but when you use the words "not to be rude" at the beginning of a sentence, it is usually because you are about to be rude.

Try not to be so patronizing as well Johanna. That does not help at all.  Really it does not.  

Parvati Wrote:
Skyblue1....I am so sorry you have been hurt.  What you said here speaks for myself and perhaps others fairly new to this forum.  From the moment I stepped into the forum, the hostility was so thick you could cut it with a knife.  I'm not sure that is a bad thing.  The interaction between NTs and aspies/auties sometimes escalates rapidly into unresolvable hostility.  What's happening in this forum has the potential of revealing what actually is at the root of such hostilities.  I'd like to make a post without begging people not to attack me or groveling for peace.  My life now is intensely painful and I haven't even gotten to square one in asking for help.  I haven't yet seen the forum as a friendly place.  It seems to me that new members must go through a kind of hazing or initiation in this forum.  I hope you will see that there are some forum members who wish you the best and want to support you.  

EvilZakkie....Your 'advice' to Ethel provided insight into the hidden mechanics of this forum and the general tone of your posts has been a welcome breath of fresh air.  When you said "a new member isn't going to understand all the nuances of these debates within a few days of being here"  --- I realized that whatever was in this forum before I registered ....isn't really my prob or the prob of any noob.  And we sort of get caught in the cross-fire without realizing we're in a battle zone.  Of course I can't speak for all noobs but in my own case I am simply in so much pain I was hoping to find some understanding or consolation.  Instead I saw people being accused of being trolls and others being bullied for framing their questions or comments in a way that was seen to be clumsy or offensive or stupid.  I just wanted to thank you for your sweet spirit.  If more of the older members would follow your lead (in sincerity and peace- making skills), us noobs might be able to feel some relief in this forum, instead of feeling scapegoated for things which existed in here before we registered.  Some of us noobs are totally clueless and certainly don't mean to offend anyone.  We just desperately need some empathy...and you have given me hope to keep trying.  However, if this forum makes others besides Skyblue1 suicidal, I will reconsider.


I tried to find points to bring up in your post Parvati, but I was not able to really separate them out, so I posted the whole thing again.

A lot of people that come to the forum are hurting.  That said, if skyblue, or anyone else, is feeling suicidal because of the forum, I would hope that they seek outside help as soon as possible.  I have been upset here before, have even cried over things that have happened, but if I get too upset, I just back off for awhile, and come back later.  

My husband, who is the reason I am here in the first place, has commented that with a bunch of people who can have difficulty communicating (like many, but not all, Aspies), of course the place will have misunderstandings.  

I think it is all people who can have that issue, especially when either emailing or posting on a forum.  You only have the words.  And the words can make sense when you are typing them out, and you understand what you were thinking, but then another person comes along and reads them and it seems like something completely different.  

It is SO IMPORTANT that we are able to ask questions, get clarification, and respect that people here are going to have different opinions.  

I think that a "noob" (game speak!  LOL!) should take a few days and read up before posting, or read the whole thread, or perhaps start, well, lightly.  Introduce yourself, offer bits, and learn, then start to add a lot of yourself.  Once people get to know you, they are more understanding of your thoughts and viewpoints.  

To defend the longstanding members that seem unfriendly or unwelcoming, there have been a lot of trolls since I joined the forum this year, and it is really hard to tell whether or not someone is genuine, and sincere, when they first start posting.  It takes some time...but I think if you give it the time, it could be really helpful to you (and once again, I am using you in the more general sense, not just to you Parvati.)

Johanna Wrote:
I do not mean to say that all established members are bad. The only thing I am against is what seems to be unequal treatment based on how long the person has been here. I'm not saying anything bad about people who have been here. It just seems that whenever someone joins, they're treated badly. I am sorry that you think that I have tainted you and your friends. I really would like to get to know you better and have pleasant discussions with you here at AFF.


I could be totally wrong here, but Rossco, I think that Johanna came in with all kinds of enthusiasm and vigor, and said some things that later she said were too strong (I am paraphrasing here) and came around to say that she had actually listened to some viewpoints and that she was here and ready to work for the advancement of the forum and of Aspies in general.  

I think she got off on the wrong start, and I for one, think that she will be a good addition to the forum.  

Sorry if my paraphrasing is not exact Johanna, but I wanted to put forth that I believe you would be an asset to us.  Fresh blood, if you will forgive the pun!  Tongue  

Johanna Wrote:
Max, I just said I didn't think Rossco was bad. Besides, sometimes, you've got to experience things for yourself instead of listening to other people. Don't you think I know that by now? I may not be an adult yet, but that doesn't mean that I'm entirely stupid.


LOL, just let me put on my interpreting hat, hehe, but I think that (unless something went on that I did not see) Max was making a joke!  I think the tension is thick.  Let me cut it a bit and we can all have some with frosting.

Amy Wrote:

Korrigan Wrote:
I would hope you are not calling me a bully.  I promise you I am not bullying you.  I am, however, being protective of the forum, and of my friends, who you seem to feel the need to flagrantly insult repeatedly.

Please apologize to Ethel for your repeated assaults.  You were not polite.  

Please apologize to Gareth for telling him to "keep his pants on" rather rudely.  That was not polite.

Lastly, please stop running rampant and being rude to people.  Stop being impolite.  

That will solve your problems.  I am nearly sure of it.


This type of post is part of the bullying that certain members have been doing, I have to say that Korrigan is one of those people. It is not acceptable at all.
Currently Korrigan has a 48 hour ban, I hope this gives her time to reflect on her approach and behaviour.
It is not a few incidents, it is long term problems which have been of great concern.
Someone may feel like they are protecting the forum, or individuals, but the forum is like an open house, we always need newcomers and they deserve equal treatment.


Um, Amy, this is an old, since resolved problem and I don't think Korrigan was bullying there, instead she gave advice (most of which I believe was followed) and things did turn out pretty well.  I have to say I don't agree with this; we're already having trouble with lack of trust between the members and the administration, don't you think this sort of thing will aggravate that?

Max the Bear Wrote:
I think the fact that Korrigan's post was necrobumped from five weeks ago is interesting. Also, of course, that Korrigan has been very helpful to Johanna and they are friends. It's hard to see it as a pressing issue.


I don't understand why Korrigan has been banned.

And the old post that you quoted hardly provides reason for a warning, far less a ban.  As Max  points out, Korrigan has offered much advice to Johanna, and I'm sure I saw Johanna referring to Korrigan as a friend within the past few days.

As for the posting of pms, I've seen that done many times on AFF and there were no bans.

Alaras Wrote:
The banhammer's too well-worn, tensions are too high, and people are too easily driven to low spirits.


Quoted for Truth.

BardWolf Wrote:
Do I have to whip my WTF doll?

I think I do


Ok so Zakkie got demoted, Korrigan is banned, and jeebus did someone called for a "Fourm Apocolypse?"


Well I cannot fix the Zakkie thing, but I have returned, so, that is at least taken care of.  I love your WTF doll!

Joel Marx suggested an orgy not so long ago!  Don't think he got many takers, although you never know! Tongue
I see my influence on the website is still strong. And as much to your dissapointment I wasn't being serious! Tongue
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