Aspies For Freedom

My short-hand on 1's and 8's is that a 1 says "Everyone must follow the rules, especially me" while and 8 says "Everybody has to follow MY rules -- except me!"

Yetti, I had you figured for an 8 in your first few posts at AFF. Some people would say "takes one to know one."

There's such a thing as an "Eight style" and it's usually hard to miss. (Though sometimes a particularly problematic 1 or a counter-phobic 6 can look a lot like an 8 on the surface.)

You probably don't agree with everything in the 8 descriptions, but 8's seldom do. One thing that sometimes makes it hard for 8's to see themselves as 8's is that they are not really great at self-awareness. Plus, their favorite defense is Denial. (They especially deny being short on self-awareness. )

Stuck? ..about you? Gee, have I been typing in my sleep? Link me to my many discussions of Yetti the Denialist.

Leave the paranoia to the 6's, Yetti. I'm talking about characteristics of 8's. I don't personally care if you're in denial or in the merry old land of Oz. Argue with the Ennegram websites.

Five, where have you studied the Enneagram? or are you self-taught? I've met professionals who certainly don't know more than you do. Are you connected to any of the professional organizations?

Most of the people I know who use the Enneagram as part of their careers are therapists, counselors or coaches. The Personal Strengths Coaching program at San Francisco State University has an Enneagram course as part of its coach certificate curriculum.

The Stanford School of Business also uses it.

Of course I'm sure the San Francisco Bay Area is an Enneagram hotbed.  

Yetti, there are a lot of great Enneagram sites in the Internet, and people here that know more about it than I do.

The Ennegram is primarily a practice that leads to self-discovery. Approach it in that spirit.

http://www.enneagram-instrument.org/links.htm

Interesting, Energeia. I used to feel Riso was way off base with his description of Fives -- all Mr. Spock two-dimentionality. I figured it was because he was so out-of-touch with his own Five-ness (and delusional about being a Four). Again, he was a very repressed person at that point. V E R Y. He became much better on Five and in other ways in the last 20 years.

Actually, Energeia, I attended a couple of his workshops very early, I think, in his career -- around the time of his first book. I was turned off by some of his personal qualities -- plus, I think I was somewhat resistant out of loyalty to Helen Palmer. (She was the Big Name at that point and Riso was the new kid on the block -- and as I said, I just adore Helen.)

He struck me as deeply closeted and a shameless self-promoter. I didn't pay much attention for quite a few years. When Riso became Riso & Hudson -- maybe at the time of the big blue book ("Wisdom of the Enneagram"?)  -- I felt his work has matured and that the additional point of view much improved his perspective.

A person's Ennegram type is largely formed by his early life experience. When that experience is one of exclusion and being treated as "different" in an unacceptable way, I think that tends to form a 6 world view. I've known a much larger percentage of Sixes among excluded/different groups (gay, black) than among the general population.

I'm not a big PD fan so I don't know enough about her... but I can see a case for Diana being a 4, yet I can also see her as a 3 with both 2 and 4 wings apparent.

Five & Energeia

I score quite high on both 8 and 4 -- usually almost a tie. I've been told that's impossible because a 4 and an 8 are "nothing" alike.

What made me think of this is was Five's rejection of the erroneous Diana categorization. Similarly,  I have seen my idol Bette Davis show up on both 4 and 8 list -- there must be some connection, commonality or overlap, at least for me and Miss Davis.

Helen Palmer said I was absolutely, unequivocally a -- well, I'd like to hear from you two first...  

Palmer once said (of herself) "When I'm researching, I research like a 5. When I'm taking care of my kids, I attend to them like a 2. When I'm negotiating a contract, I negotiate like an 8. But I walk down the street like a 6.

Most of us can and do display traits from almost all nine types when those traits are called for. But there is usually the type that just how we are "walking down the street" --  how we are when we're not being situationally tugged to function as one of the other types.

People also get very caught up in observing behaviors and forget that the motivation behind the behavior is very defining.

Yes, anbuend, you've made your aversion to the Ennegram clear and I assume you can move on now.

I wonder id he was reading a Don Risso description. I've always felt Risso is confused on his own 4/5 identity. (a 5 claiming to be a 4)

Eight: the Activator  — a competitive, practical, passionate maneuverer. Eights experience life as a series of obstacles to be overcome. They disdain weakness and rely on their strength, although they rarely feel as strong as they appear to others. Often known as vital and engaging, they prefer to deal directly with most situations. Taking a stand is easy for them while backing down, even when they are wrong, is difficult. They intend to get the most from life and to let little if anything or anyone stand in their way

Eights concentrate on their own abilities to make things happen; thus they come across as forthright, blunt, firm, and full of life and strength. Some are loud and raucous, others are reserved and proper, but all are direct in communication. They have clearly defined ideas on what is just and use their considerable strength to make the world conform to their ideas, first for themselves and then for others. Eights are organized yeah, right people who are determined to be in control whenever possible. A tender side lies within them which their own family can tap into, along with anyone they consider to be oppressed.

or

Four: the Individualist  — a self-absorbed, sensitive, creative overanalyzer. Fours experience life as a series of interpersonal encounters, even as they feel overwhelmed by life’s practical necessities. For them, life is a highly personal experience that demands an authentic response. They feel intensely about anything or anyone important to them and feel compelled to express their feelings. Analyzing situations and their own experience occupies much of their time as they search for creative and artistic means of expressing themselves.

Fours are emotionally sensitive people — first toward themselves, and then toward others. Emotions, both positive and negative, are the lens through which they view the world. This focus on emotions is both a strength and a weakness. The strength lies in their creative sensitivities which lead them to initiate new and original programs and/or innovative ideas that will enhance existing programs. The weakness lies in their tendency to take everything personally and to identify everything that could go wrong with a project before they are able to give their wholehearted support. When their emotions are balanced with objectivity, Fours excel in communication and relational skills. Fours feel caught in their own ordinariness (hmmm... I have tried to achieve ordinariness, but have not been very successful...) and so strive to avoid it; they want to feel unique.

You floated that possibility when we talked last summer.  I never score high as a Six on any of the tests and get zeroes on 9...

But it does explain several things -- my absolute distrust and loathing of unhealthy 3's and my almost universal affection for the sixes I've known... and if you see me at home with Erich, I sure look like a Nine. I avoid situations where I have to be a Three because I get WAY too much into the three-ness and it just brings out all the worst in me. It's a lot of why I left the theater.

I'm looking at counter-phobic 6, sexual subtype... hmmm...

6w5... hard to grasp a category that includes Richard Nixon and Diane Keaton, who are very near the opposite extremes of my despise/adore axis...

hmmm...