Aspies For Freedom

I've never seen anything here about the Enneagram, but I agree that type 5 is most similar to the stereotypical Aspie. 5 with a 6 wing, maybe...

Here's an example of one writer's analysis of a Five:

Enneagram Type 5 - The Investigator

Thinkers who tend to withdraw and observe

Enneagram type 5 - The Investigator: People of this personality type essentially fear that they don't have enough inner strength to face life, so they tend to withdraw, to retreat into the safety and security of the mind where they can mentally prepare for their emergence into the world. Fives feel comfortable and at home in the realm of thought. They are generally intelligent, well read and thoughtful and they frequently become experts in the areas that capture their interest.

While they are sometimes scientifically oriented, especially with the Six wing, just as many Fives are drawn to the humanities and it is not at all uncommon for Fives to have artistic inclinations. Fives are often a bit eccentric; they feel little need to alter their beliefs to accommodate majority opinion, and they refuse to compromise their freedom to think just as they please.

The problem for Fives is that while they are comfortable in the realm of thought, they are frequently a good deal less comfortable when it comes to dealing with their emotions, the demands of a relationship, or the need to find a place for themselves in the world. Fives tend to be shy, non-intrusive, independent and reluctant to ask for the help that others might well be happy to extend to them.

Fives are sensitive; they don't feel adequately defended against the world. To compensate for their sensitivity, Fives sometimes adopt an attitude of careless indifference or intellectual arrogance, which has the unfortunate consequence of creating distance between themselves and others. Trying to bridge the distance can be difficult for Fives, as they are seldom comfortable with their social skills, but when they do manage it, they are often devoted friends and life long companions.

Fives are usually somewhat restrained when it comes to emotional expression, but they often have stronger feelings than they let on. Few people know what is going on beneath the surface, as Fives have an often exaggerated need for privacy and a deep seated fear of intrusion.

Because of their sensitivity and their fears of inadequacy, Fives fear being overwhelmed, either by the demands of others or by the strength of their own emotions. They sometimes deal with this by developing a minimalistic lifestyle in which they make few demands on others in exchange for few demands being made on them.

Other Fives make their peace with the messiness of life and engage it more fully, but they almost always retain their fears that life is somehow going to demand more of them than they can deliver.

Here are a couple of free online tests that might help establish which of the Nine personality types you are: http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test.php

Almost all psychological/neurological "categories" relate primarily to a specific Ennegram type. The enneagram was around long before all the DSM labels were created.

I agree that while most aspies will hover around the Ennegram Five, there will be a lot of Six mixed into the Five for many people. (And some Four for others)

Certainly here on this board there are some very creative, artistic Fourish Fives. And many, many sixy fives -- both phobic and counter-phobic sixes.

I wonder... if we looked at lists of famous 5's, would we see a lot of AS folks?

Examples of 5s with a 6 wing:

Isaac Asimov, Charles Darwin, Sigmund Freud, Bill Gates, Jane Goodall, Stephen Hawking, Alfred Hitchcock, Theodore Kaczynski, Karl Marx, Ezra Pound

Examples of 5w4s

Hannah Arendt, Tim Burton, Kurt Cobain, Albert Einstein, Franz Kafka, Stanley Kubrick, John Lennon, David Lynch, Friedrich Nietzsche, Vincent Van Gogh

List of "Famous Fives" -- I think there are quite a few Aspies here...

Albert Einstein,
Stephen Hawking,
Bill Gates,
Georgia O'Keefe,
Stanley Kubrick,
John Lennon,
Lily Tomlin,
Gary Larson,
Laurie Anderson,
Merce Cunningham,
Meredith Monk,
James Joyce,
Bjšrk,
Susan Sontag,
Emily Dickenson,
Agatha Christie,
Ursula K. LeGuin,
Jane Goodall,
Glenn Gould,
John Cage,
Bobby Fischer,
Tim Burton,
David Lynch,
Stephen King,
Clive Barker,
Trent Reznor,
Friedrich Nietzsche,
Vincent Van Gogh,
Kurt Cobain,
Jodie Foster,
"Fox Mulder" (X Files).

"are they famous because of their aspiesness or despite it?"

I think that's always an impossible thing to prove, but my stance is that WHATEVER a person achieves, it is essentially a product of being the person he/she is -- and being Aspie is a core identity/character/personality factor for anyone on the AS spectrum.

So it's ultimately like asking "Would Emily Dickenson be Emily Dickenson if she weren't Emily Dickenson?" -- and I say no. Without Asperger's, she probably would have been just another NT housewife with nine kids. Her entire genius -- her  observation, understanding and expression -- came from her Aspie gifts.

Ooh, very interesting, thank you for starting this topic!

For the enneagram test with instinctual variant :

You are most likely a type 5 (the Investigator) with 6 wing

Self-preservation variant

For the first enneagram test:

You are most likely a type 5.

Taking wings into account, you seem to be a 5w4.

Neat...

<hugs>

Athie

...although 1's can be --

judgmental
inflexible
dogmatic
obsessive-compulsive
critical of others
overly serious
controlling
anxious
and
jealous

...but nobody's perfect

The trifix is new to me, too. (Okay, I'm busted; I haven't been reading much on the Enneagram  for a few years...

Batman, I agree that 6 is most likely your real point. 4 results are often inflated when one is going through a period of depression.

Dang, Energeia! You are so cutting-edge! I could find almost nothing about the trifix on Google. Tell us what you know!

Here's the best little bit I found on the Internet, and how I would apply it to myself:

Dave: > First of all, the teaching is based on the TRIFIX or tri-fixation. In each of the triads we have a fixated point, one being primary, the other 2 being co-fixations. Each point in the triad is formed by a perceived trauma in early childhood with mom(8/9/1), dad(2/3/4/), and siblings/world(5/6/7). The primary fixation is what we know as out type.

> So, for example, those that feel they are a 4 w/ 9 wing are most likely a 4 primary fix, 9 as a co-fixation, and 5/6/7 as the lesser co-fixation.
> That brings up a number of other "sub-types", but in the ARica/Ichazo system all those wing, stress/disintegration & security/intgration, and insticntual subtypes are false. I disagree with that though.

Is this essentially saying Choose one from each triad, in descending order of applicability? That would make me a 4/8/6... So since I'm primarily a Four, That would mean I had some sort of childhood trauma with/from my father. Oy! Is that the truth. Later, my mother's death when I was 11, hence the equally strong 8. It also makes sense that my 6 is in the sibling arena -- issues of trust/loyalty/ dominated my relationships with my brothers.

5/6 and 6/5 have got to be the biggest category among Aspies -- with more than a few 1's. In looking at people here at AFF, I can think of 5/4's and 5's who are very connected to their 8.

When I was in theater, I would have the cast take the test and it would be 75% 4's -- often with that "I'm gonna be a STAR!" 3wing.

I got a 4.  The page describing 4 mentioned 4w5, though, and that sounded like me.  But, it also said 4s miss-identify as 5s, so I don't know.  

I had to take the less detailed one because the more detailed one wanted me to choose between two oposite adjectives- BOTH OF WHICH DESCRIBED ME, depending on mood and whatnot.  So, am I more inttroverted or extroverted?  Both, depending on whether I'm in a good mood.  Do I feel comfortable talking about personal things?  Again, yes if I'm in a good mood, no if I'm not.  I am a creature of opposite extremes.  This causes VERY frequent problems with online tests.

Thanks.  The descriptions on those sites don't sound anything like the one I first read, but describe me better, particularly the "Social 4" (except that I don't really mind if my friends do things without me and I don't seek out social interaction)

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Enneagram Type 5 - The Investigator
Thinkers who tend to withdraw and observe

People of this personality type essentially fear that they don't have enough inner strength to face life, so they tend to withdraw, to retreat into the safety and security of the mind where they can mentally prepare for their emergence into the world. Fives feel comfortable and at home in the realm of thought. They are generally intelligent, well read and thoughtful and they frequently become experts in the areas that capture their interest. While they are sometimes scientifically oriented, especially with the Six wing, just as many Fives are drawn to the humanities and it is not at all uncommon for Fives to have artistic inclinations. Fives are often a bit eccentric; they feel little need to alter their beliefs to accommodate majority opinion, and they refuse to compromise their freedom to think just as they please. The problem for Fives is that while they are comfortable in the realm of thought, they are frequently a good deal less comfortable when it comes to dealing with their emotions, the demands of a relationship, or the need to find a place for themselves in the world. Fives tend to be shy, nonintrusive, independent and reluctant to ask for the help that others might well be happy to extend to them.

Fives are sensitive; they don't feel adequately defended against the world. To compensate for their sensitivity, Fives sometimes adopt an attitude of careless indifference or intellectual arrogance, which has the unfortunate consequence of creating distance between themselves and others. Trying to bridge the distance can be difficult for Fives, as they are seldom comfortable with their social skills, but when they do manage it, they are often devoted friends and life long companions.

Fives are usually somewhat restrained when it comes to emotional expression, but they often have stronger feelings than they let on. Few people know what is going on beneath the surface, as Fives have an often exaggerrated need for privacy and a deep seated fear of intrusion. Because of their sensitivity and their fears of inadequacy, Fives fear being overwhelmed, either by the demands of others or by the strength of their own emotions. They sometimes deal with this by developing a minimalistic lifestyle in which they make few demands on others in exchange for few demands being made on them. Other Fives make their peace with the messiness of life and engage it more fully, but they almost always retain their fears that life is somehow going to demand more of them than they can deliver.

Fives, especially with the Four wing, sometimes mistype themselves as Fours. Such Fives recognize that they have strong emotions and don't identify with the often extremely cerebral portrait of type Five. But, Fives, unlike Fours, always retain some degree of discomfort when it comes to the expression of their emotional states. However much facility they may gain with it, the language of emotion is not their native tongue.

5 with a 4 wing

Hmmmmm......not sure what to do with that answer, Max.

I can see the 1 in you also, Ocampo.