Aspies For Freedom

Yetti, my parents had a long and happy marriage (55 years until my father's death).  She was a 1w2, he a 9w1.  I cannot imagine being married to either one of them, but they made it work, using many of the strategies you have written about.  She was the more dynamic of the two of them. It's really weird that people in your circle denigrate or want to break up your marriage.  I haven't seen that kind of thing with the people I hang out around (admittedly a rather nerdly and/or gay crowd). I think it's great when partners stay together.

It can shed light on certain types of conflicts or disconnects between pairs of individuals. For example, it helped me to realize that my boss is a flaming 7.  Great at visionary, not so great at detail-oriented follow-through.  And a master at reframing conversations or situations.  Stuff that used to bother me I now think is amusing.

Max--No, I haven't seen Riso--hopefully I will at the conference.  Several enneagram authors are supposed to be there.  I had to overcome my fivish fiscal retentiveness and cough up the money to register.  But...what am I saving it for, anyway?

I'm speculating that 3 would be a fairly rare type for autistics--the 3's strength (one of them) lies in being able to easily adapt an image to fit the prevailing expectation of whatever contexts the 3 inhabits.  Supposedly, the ability to do this operates almost unconsciously--I dunno--there's no way I'm a 3.  I'm not saying you're not a 3, Ando--I have no way of knowing.  A challenge for 3s is to reframe success away from the external metrics and towards intrinsic self-valuing.

Several types will be achievement-oriented, so this isn't the sole province of 3s.  And fear of failure afflicts 1, 3, 5 (the competency-oriented types).

Max--I swear, I read many 5 descriptions and think--No way am I a 5!  But then....I look at the big picture.  (I have a pretty strong line to 8 and am social first--hence more outgoing than the "standard" 5).  Sounds like you've known Riso a long time--do you personally know him or is it that you've been following him in action?

You did.

You could look into 6.  Or also try looking into 4.
I doubt that anyone has done a scientific study of autism and E types--the info would be pretty anecdotal. But 6w5 wouldn't be surprising, in my opinion.

Based on what I've read of your postings, you appear to be a "reactive" type.

Do either set of these "transformations" resonate with you?

Type 6

I now release...

my fear of being abandoned and alone.
my self-defeating, self-punishing tendencies.
all feelings of dread about the future.
feeling persecuted, trapped, and desperate.
overreacting and exaggerating my problems.
taking out my fears and anxieties on others.
being suspicious of others and thinking the worst of them.
feeling inferior and incapable of functioning on my own.
feeling cowardly and unsure of myself.
acting "tough" to disguise my insecurities.
my fear and dislike of those who are different from me.
blaming others for my own problems and mistakes.
being evasive and defensive with those who need me.
my tendency to be negative and complaining.
my fear of taking responsibility for my mistakes.
looking to others to make me feel secure.

I now affirm...

that I am independent and capable.
that I can keep my own identity in groups and in relationships.
that I have faith in myself, my talents, and my future.
that I meet difficulties with calmness and confidence.
that I am secure and able to make the best of whatever comes my way.
the kinship I have with every human being.
that I am understanding and generous to all who need me.
that I act courageously in all circumstances.
that I find true authority within me.

Type 4

I now release...

turning my anger and aggressions against myself.
all self-hatred and self-contempt.
all feelings of hopelessness and despair.
all self-sabotaging thoughts and actions.
feeling that I am inadequate and defective.
the fear that I am unimportant and undesirable.
feeling shameful and misunderstood by others.
being distraught, fatigued, and inhibited.
feeling that people always let me down.
all unrealistic expectations of myself and others.
all claims of needing to be treated differently.
all self-indulgence in my emotions and behavior.
all self-doubt and emotional vulnerability.
wanting to protect myself by withdrawing from others.
all wasteful fantasies and romantic longings.
dwelling on the past to prolong my feelings.
I now affirm...

that I am not defined by my feelings.
that only the feelings I act on express who I am.
that I open myself up to people and the world.
that I use all of my experiences to grow.
the goodness of my life, my friends, and myself.
that I love myself and treat myself gently.
that I am free of the damage of my past.
that I am transforming my life into something higher.
that I am bringing something good and beautiful into the world.

Grizelda--5 and 9 can be lookalike types--both being in the "withdrawn" triad.  A way to distinguish them is that 9s are comfort-oriented and will like to sooth over conflict (sometimes by avoidance, at a cost to self) in order to restore equanimity.  5s are more mentally high-strung--if conflict is the price to be paid for getting at truth and insight, they're more likely to take it on than 9s.  5s, through questioning, will disturb peace.

Max--thanks for answering about Riso...will let you know what I think after the conference...and Five, thanks for the good wishes.

Batman--I think there's a good chance you're a 6.  But I'm not altogether sure.

Anbuend--you go, girl, that was GOOD! (Seriously....very succinctly put). And when you throw in the instinctual variants (social, self-pres, sexual), the typing problem gets even more complicated, because some variants "go against" type--like Sx and 5.

I'm not altogether convinced of my type or the types of some of the complex personalites that I know.  The way I'd explain the problem is that it can be hard to delineate the primary or most dominant fixation in a person who has a wide range of defensive responses. Or, conversely, in a person who has developed flexibility and adaptability with respect to the difficulties life throws them.  The idea here isn't to limit oneself to a type but to understand driving forces behind one's responses to life.

Re: Princess Di--I don't know all that much about her.  But I could see type 2 as a possibility. I get the impression that she was not an especially wanted child--she had some older sisters.  She was looking for love, and the idea of being mated to royalty might have been appealing to a 2 (ego-flattery).  But, she didn't receive love--I'm guessing that she tried various A, B, C strategies to no avail....and then went to 8 in major ways.  She stood up to the queen by virtue of doing her AIDS outreach and other activities.  She saw a need and decided to fill it.

Re: Max the bear--not enough data for me to guess at your type. If you test high in 4 and 8, that suggests you could be a reactive, leaving therefore 6 as an alternate possibility--cp6w7 perhaps? (grin).

Nope!
It just proves you're a sharp thinker.

If you want to identify with your fiveness, look at the various ways you withhold.  Fives are famous for acquiring and then being withholding with knowledge...but it doesn't have to be knowledge.  It could be money, affection, time.  Whatever the five thinks is or could be scarce, so wants to have control over the conditions under which it is given away.[/u]

Anbuend--no problem with your expressions of enneagram skepticism on my end.  I'm all for discussion.  (Can't speak for Max, but Max doesn't speak for me, either.)

Are you an MBTI sensor? Just curious.
For me, symbolic psych systems like astrology and the enneagram have been helpful for mapping people's behavior into patterns I can understand.  Turns chaos into some order.  A danger is that at the same time that a type framework such as the enneagram reveals possible order, it also conceals.  Things that don't fit or are discordant are ignored or explained away. Hence, there is possibility for error as well as some truth.  To quote some wise person, don't recall who, but the one who said--"the map is not the territory".

My Dad was an ISTJ 9. I'm wary of attempts to come up with definitive correlations between different personality typing systems.  I think there can be feeling (e.g INFP) 5s and extraverted 4s etc.

They're both (4 and 5) internally focussed.  And, despite the stereotype, 5s feel.  4s are more likely to amp up their feelings (so the stereotype goes) and 5s suppress them or detach from them.

Are any of you folks, especially all you 5s, social firsts?  (guilty, here)

Average them and you get six (evillll grin)--counterphobic, of course

I don't know you well enough to type with any degree of confidence--I was kind of joking with you. You're not 9 for sure, not 2, 3, 5. I'll bet you've got a line to one somehow, maybe via wing. I could see a 7wing.  If you're Sx first, that could explain the 4ishness.  What about cp6w7?  Possible 8w7?  I'll have taken the Part I training (I hope) by the time you guys head up here--maybe my typing skills will be better by then.

Not sure anyone can deal with an unhealthy 3.  I shared a lab with one who was on his way down--not good.  He came to a bad end, but fortunately after he'd left our place.