Aspies For Freedom

Hmmm...how do I go to 8?  Decide what I want to do and do it.  Ask for permission or forgiveness later

Interestingly, I'm a reluctant leader...I end up in the position more often than I would like either because I'm the person who knows the most about what needs to be done or because I'm willing to do what it takes.  I've been accused of being overly controlling.  I have One-ish tendencies that get exacerbated when I have to go into some sort of organization mode. Sometimes frustrating to self and others.

Oh, I'm mostly a sequential thinker, except for occasional blasts of intuition that reconfigure everything.  I'm happiest at work when I can focus intensely on multistep processes where figuring out the overall best sequences makes sense and also focus on various types of pattern recognition activities.  Unfortunately, that particular job description has ended, and I'm now supposed to be multitasking and I'm always exhausted.  It was amazing to me how I would work 70 hour weeks no problem when I was in focus mode and how, now, I can barely work 30.  But, I don't think you can generalize this to all aspies or fives.

Hmmmm..this sounds really deep, Five, but I don't understand what you mean
Define: feeling
Do you mean emotions?  Valuations?  Sensations?

I doubt that a parallel brain sees all meanings that exist either.  Don't know why a "serial" brain would get depressed more easily than a "parallel" brain. Unless, maybe, your thinking is that depression constitutes an inability to adequately process feelings. But anyways, you're raising interesting questions...maybe repost it as a new thread, so more folks will read and respond to it, as I'm guessing that many have tuned out on this thread?  (soc variant speaking here, HA!)
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Back to your other comments...(so nice to have someone be interested in something I'm interested in, yeah!!!!)

1. I definitely have a preference for straight lines rather than curves. Comes out in my art and I've seen this as something I need to work on. Funny you should bring this up.

2. Re: variants.  Soc first.. probably soc/sp/sx....I think the last two have switched as I've gotten older.  I probably also have a heavier 6 wing than you.

3. Re: driving...I don't do it.  I drove for 2 years and hated it.  If I lived in the country, it'd be okay (and necessary) but I live in a city so walk and use public transport and it's okay.  

4.  Sequential and parallel processing...yeah, I tune out some of the channels, like body language and emotions.  Over-attention paid to verbal. It'd be interesting to know how common this is for 5s.

5.  enneagram--I'm still learning the system and find aspects of it somewhat confusing.  Which authors do you like best?  (I think Richard Rohr gives a good description of 5s...better than, say, Palmer.  But not as good a description of 6.)  Use of "thinking" and "feeling" is problematic, imo, because the terms have so many different definitions (e.g. colloquial, mbti, other psychology etc).  I really don't "get" your association of thinking with linearity and feeling with parallelarity.   I think you're trying to force a schema that might suffer from oversimplification.

Thanks, Five.
Haven't read Goldberg yet--I've been looking in the New Age section of the local used bookstores but it hasn't turned up. I also like Hurley/Donson and Baron/Wagle. And even Riso/Hudson!  I find Almass/Maitri harder to read.  All that "essence" stuff makes me kind of sleepy.

I suppose one could say that a 4 infuses situations with meaning (i.e. the amplification of feelings), but I think that a 5 can also do this, via amplification of thoughts--like what happens in an active aspie special interest.  It's very weird--I look at some of my past obsessions and wonder...what was I thinking?  And who was the person who was so fascinated by this stuff?  (e.g. chemical bonding).  Being a 5, you're going to be attuned to meaning and lack thereof, in your desire to avoid emptiness.  Not sure this is so important for other types--that is, it's not that they don't want meaning, but they're not so obsessed with Meaning, if you get what I mean.  

I suspect that having a difficult time getting motivated based on external concerns afflicts all of the head types. (5, 6, 7 just in case somebody besides 5 and myself are actually still reading this thread). It for sure affects me.  Having been raised by a 1 mother, I got being responsible and keeping agreements drilled into me, so I can generally get stuff done if I have to.  But it's so much easier when my will and desire are aligned.

It's the latter, I think. Give it a couple of years maybe, and they'll be a forum for aspie 5s (Or, if you were feeling really brave, you could pose some of your questions on the EIDB.  Might make for an interesting discussion....or not)

I don't totally understand, either.  I think soc/sx is a real possibility for me but the folks on the EIDB aren't convinced.  Probably what's most true is that I like to go deep with people in conversations (small talk...UGH) and like to have longstanding friendships.  The sex thing...too messy...and this could be an aspie response, e.g., not liking the sensation, say, of moisture on skin, or various odors. I'm definitely not Sx first.....I would find exclusive one-on-one focus to be too limiting.  Sp stuff...I manage it, but don't find it interesting.

For me...TV has too much stimulation.  It's like speed or something...especially the commercials. I haven't been in the homes of enough clear-cut 5s to do my own statistical analysis. I also don't have a car or a cell phone or an ipod or DVD player -- it's a wonder how I manage to function

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?
Re: tests...there are links in a sticky thread in the Diagnosis forum.  The rdos one (asperger quiz) goes into different categories that you might find interesting.  I found the Baron-Cohen one frustrating because of the cultural stereotypes involved with empathizing and systemizing.  The msnbc one is pretty good, as I recall--assays for certain predilections and behaviors.

Like you, though, I wonder how much is 5ness and how much aspieness. Right now, I'm curious about how many aspies have that delayed feeling reaction (feeling as emotion) that is often characteristic of 5s. And "sensory overload" could be one reason why 5s need and want a ton of "alone time."  Like you said at the beginning of this thread, I think there's a lot of overlap.

Re:  how aspieish you are. One thing you can do is maybe talk with your parents to get a sense of what you were like as a young child. And also look at the various ways you have learned compensatory behaviors.  (E.g., for me, taking, and then teaching, listening skills classes where we learned to ask open questions, paraphrase, etc was incredibly helpful.)

I got 91/200 aspie, 83/200 neurotypical--skipped several questions, flummoxed by the "depends on what you mean by....." problem.  Or by the "gee, I don't know how most people respond..." problem.

Love the comment....sp 5...when I produce a few words, that's already a lot.  Bet you talk when it's on a topic you're interested in, though.

Thanks for telling me how old you are--42, eh?  Definitely old enough to have figured out ways to cope and compensate.

I wonder how many older aspies come out both aspie and neurotypical on that test.  (Course we oldies are kind of rare on this forum.)

Over 40 is ancient on THIS forum!
Re: enneagram and aspie concepts--it's always hard to fit an individual into a category such as "type"--difficult to sort out what's essential from incidental, both in the individual and in the type.

Re: mental age--there's also emotional age.
I feel kind of ageless....a big territory between, say, 25 and....I'm not sure.

Hi
Will get back to this later tonight...just got home and gotta go out again.  If you happen to read this....any idea what your boss's conscious or stated incentive is?
(I know 9s can be indirect...but just curious what reasons he's given you.)

Natalie
Try reading this link and see if you identify more with 1 or 5.
http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/misid/1and5.asp

You could also try a different test, e.g.,
http://similarminds.com/advtest.html

Five, back to your boss questions.  

I'm thinking that you need more information about why exactly your boss wants you to take on new small projects that you're not interested in.  I'll presume that he thinks he's looking out for your best interests (rather than his own interests...e.g. dumping more work on you).  For example, there could be external issues about the company that you may not be aware of (e.g. you could be maybe getting bought out and these extra experiences would poise you better to stay or leave) or maybe he wants to promote you and can't justify it unless you obtain these new experiences.  Or maybe he's getting pressured from other people in your workplace to make you do different things. Or, as you surmise, he thinks it would be in your interests to move outside your comfort zone because....well...just because...you oughtta.  So my first response is to suggest you try and get more info out of him as to what exactly are his motivations for pushing you in this "small extra job" direction. (Course, being a 9, if this involves confrontation or interpersonal difficulty, he may not want to be direct with you.)

My second thought is to see if it's specific projects he wants done, or if instead it's a set of skills he wants you to obtain or develop more fully.  For example, maybe you don't like to write and he wants you to produce a technical manual for something (I don't know what you do, so I'm just grasping for examples.) so you'd become more at ease with writing.  Or maybe he wants you to show more initiative, or execute higher level planning--I don't know. If it's skills he wants, then maybe some of these could be developed within the context of what you're already working on.

My third thought is to level with him....for example, maybe say that if you take on projects you're not interested in or motivated to do, this will sap your energy and effectiveness regarding the work you currently do well. He might not appreciate this as a possible consequence.  Many bosses can deal in terms like efficiency, effectiveness, accomplishment, etc.  (Course, being a 9, he's going to care about interpersonal harmony, compromise, agreement, etc.).  While it might be good, in theory, to develop areas of weaknesses, I think that if you're an aspie, it probably works better to develop areas of strength.  You can make this point without saying you're an aspie...but rather that you're more effective and HAPPY when you play to your strengths, which are...<fill in specific strengths with examples of how these benefit your employer>.

My fourth thought is .... stall...(if you haven't come up with a plan that you both accept as viable).  Wouldn't recommend this if your boss were an 8 or a 1 or a 3 but a 9.......stall and maybe he'll just give up or forget

My fifth thought is to see if it's possible to agree on a plan you can both live with.  Perhaps there are solutions you all haven't thought of yet.  But this won't be productive, I don't think, until you get a better grip on where he's coming from in wanting you to take on these small projects.

Dunno if this helps any.
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Me, I have a 7w8 boss whom I basically like and respect but who, on occasion, drives me bats with his ever-varying "let's do this, let's do that, let's write a 60 page grant in a week, etc".  He also pushes me, with varying resistances on my part, to get outside my comfort zone.  I often feel as if I'm disappointing him because I don't sign on with exuberant enthusiasm to his latest pie-in-the-sky brilliant solution to inventing the future.  I swear, this guy brings out the "provocative cynic" in me, so we have some good arguments sometimes.

Natalie--do you know what your mbti type is?

Five--UGH! (re: company policy).  
I don't guess that there's any chance that you and your boss can fake out the system...i.e. come up with something that sounds plausible.  You have to be evaluated every MONTH?  Yee Gads!  

Okay...so it sounds as if an interpersonal challenge here centers on how to convince your boss that his well-intentioned efforts are counterproductive.  He's a 9--he's going to want to find points of agreement between you.  I guess what I'm curious about is whether or not you and he can come up with ways for you to "develop" within the context of your current job and interests.

Determining enneatype by laughter phenotype--haven't heard that one before!  Gee, if you're a member of the EIDB I'd love it if you'd start a thread there on how you go about doing this--bet it might get some good discussion going, if you're up for people disagreeing with you.  

You'd probably throw me out of the 5 camp, Five (although I dunno how you think 5s laugh).  At work, I've been told to tone it down...that is, I'd spontaneously laugh so loud it would startle people. I find myself most amusing sometimes.

Re: my 7w8 boss--he is the master of reframing and "flexible commitments", thank heavens he has a strong line to 5, else he'd be totally all over the map.  Often hard to talk with because he keeps interrupting with what he thinks.  Big, gestalty thinker, impatient with details. Very "positive attitude" coping strategy. Breaks any rule he doesn't like.  Rules and procedures don't apply to him.  Speedy driver, to use one of your metrics for 7.  Actually, I have a hard time typing most people, but the boss is really clear-cut.  I'd be really surprised if I was wrong on his type.

Natalie--suggest you read through various descriptions of types 1 and 5 to see if either of them seems like a good fit....if you care to know more, that is.

For example, at 9types.com,
http://www.9types.com/descr/5/
http://www.9types.com/descr/1/
(and on the left side of these pages, check out the links to E-gram transform)

Five, what do you consider to be your most Five-ish qualities?  And which aspects of yourself least fit the type?  (If you want to answer, of course.)

Hey Five--thanks for the elaboration.
What kind of 6 wing do I have?
Given your distinction as stated, I'm not sure (I really oughtta reread Hurley/Donson!).  I can relate to both.

My 6 wing adds an element of congeniality (but also soc first) to my personality--makes me more outgoing, fueled by that need for some safety obtained through connection.  Also probably decreases my self-confidence--I'm often questioning what I think or how I feel (assuming I can figure the latter out)--the "but but but" internal counter-arguments. Which I sometimes externalize and hence drive people bonkers. I'd say my analytical side is more pure 5 (people sometimes assign this to the 6 wing in contrast to 4 wing but I don't buy it).  The 6 wing probably helps me to take more risks--the counterphobic face-the-fear thing.