Aspies For Freedom

Hi, I see a lot of similarities between AS and enneagram type 5. Before I write anything further:
Is there already an existing thread about this subject?

Max, thanks for the type 5 summary. And Energeia, I know the forum you mention. I'm a 5w6 with few special interests, the enneagram and Paris. For others: 5w6 is short for 5 wing 6, meaning type 5 with some type 6 traits. There is a lot of information about the enneagram available on the internet.

In time, I've become an enneagram expert and have more than 30 books about it, and also about the background (Gurdjieff, Ouspensky). I use my knowledge daily, in contacts with people. I have difficulty with small talk, prefer email and need lots of time alone. Being with people can be draining. So for years I'm thinking that being an enneagram type 5 explains my behaviour. Now that I'm getting to know more about Aspies, maybe I'm an Aspie thinking he's a Five. My score on the Geek Syndrome test is 33. Or you are all Fives, assuming to be Aspies... Until now I'm assuming all Aspies are Fives, but, Energeia, apparently you have another suggestion.

So how to decide, am I an Aspie, or are you Fives? Maybe Aspies are at the extreme end of the Enneagram type Five range?

Although what you write, energeia, in my opinion still has to be considered as a hypothesis, it seems highly likely to me that all of it is true. Thanks for the clarification.

One sentence I would say differently:

Maybe the overlap between 5ness and aspieness is caused by a common tendency (for both 5s and aspies) to use the brain in a serial way (thinking, computer-like, do one thing at a time, orderly) as opposed to using it in a parallel way (feeling, multi-tasking, chaotic). If this theory is true then we would expect that it's unlikely for an enneatype 2 (all feelings, repressed thinking) to be aspie. How does that sound?

And Max, yes, I also think there will be aspies amongst the famous fives. The question is, are they famous because of their aspiesness or despite it.

I walk. It's so simple but has a big effect. I mean, I've discovered that during walking (not running) I go to 8 and feel very good. So I walk on almost every day that I don't work. For several reasons, I prefer to do that in big cities, so I take a lot of short holidays. And I'm very curious how do you manage to go to 8, Energeia? I hope everybody call still follow this, enneatype 8 is "the leader".
I'm certain I'm a 5 but also have 1, 9 and 8 traits. The 6 happens to me unvoluntarily when people I know are present.  

Actually I thougt the serial vs parallel part was brilliant. No, I'm joking now. But seriously, I really see a lot of serial things in me. For example, I like trains (that's serial, one station following the other, very predictable too). I manage to do my work by putting a lot of small tasks in my agenda, in time (serial again). Aspies, anyone recognizes serial aspects in yourself? Or is multi-tasking (parallel behaviour) not a problem for you? As I see it, a thought is a serial form of a feeling, and feelings are parallel versions of thoughts.

That's the same for me, probably because we're the same enneagram type, and nothing to do with Aspies.

That's my main contribution in my job. I'm good at planning, which is: putting tasks in a row (serial, or another word would be: linear). My guess is, many aspies are good with sequences (computer programming for example), which is serial. Talking about linear, is there a preference amongst aspies for straight lines, sharp edges instead of curves? Imagine you are selecting a new car.

Oh, but I think we can generalize the exhaustion to a certain degree. What kind of 5 are you (selfpreservation, sexual, social)? (Me: selfpreservation). My hypothesis is that selfpreservation fives and aspies have in common that they both use the brain in a serial way. Parallel behaviour such as communicating with people takes a lot of energy. See it as being forced, by biology, to using 1 channel (serial). Email is 1 channel (no sound, no visual contact, only written text, which is a sequence of letters and words (serial)). Face to face communication is multi channel (parallel), because there's body language, sound, intonation, words, visual contact and maybe physical contact (and maybe fear). For me, that's exhausting (not always). Another example of 1 channel (serial): narrow interest, few special interests. Another example of parallel: learning how to drive a car (steering, looking, accelerating etc.). My guess is that many aspies had difficulties learning how to drive, or learning sports/body movements because that requires a parallel brain.

I mean thinking as in the enneatype 5, 6 and 7. And feeling as in type 2, 3 and 4. Not sensations. I don't mean fear or anger or love, it's hard to define, I mean the feeling triad. If reality is a whole, and through our limited brains we perceive reality as dualities, then opposites are not real. For example, we say hot and cold exist, but really there is only temperature. If something we can´t observe expresses itself in a parallel way, we call it a feeling. If it expresses itself in a serial way, we call it a thought.

The enneagram is symmetrical. It really is one, but it looks as if there is a left side and a right side. But these sides are not opposities. They are complementaries, they are one.

To bring this back to the subject of this forum, my hypothesis is that Aspies are at the serial end of the range, and have difficulty with parallel things. For example, meanings are parallel. A serial brain doesn´t see all meaning which exists, as can become depressed easier than average. Again, this is my hypothesis, not a proven fact.

Yes, probably good to post some questions as a new thread or poll to get more people involved. Thanks for your feedback and openness.

About the assumed sensitivity for depressions of aspies and fives: if someone easily sees an activity or task or his/her life as useless or meaningless, the person will be hard to motivate for that activity (narrow interests of aspies!) or can get depressed as a consequence of seeing a lot of meaninglessness. My guess is that enneatype 4 (opposite of 5) sees more meaning than really exists (consequence: magic, predicting future etc.).

Enneagram authors I prefer: Baron&Wagele use a lot of pictures, very funny. Very detailed: all books of Riso&Hudson. Michael Goldberg is very good. And Hurley&Donson's books are my number 1 but you have to skip a lot of pages with religious nonsense (But there are many more.

I just read the thread "Musings of a NTishAspie or AspieishNT or Something". I'm impressed by the attitude of many people on this forum, so helpful and understanding, and let's not forget the humour.

I guess my skills to keep this thread open to everybody aren't very good, and maybe the subject has become to specialistic for others to join in.

Energeia, you sound not only very intelligent but also very healthy. To me the high number of your posts is an indication for the social variant. There is a relation between a lower desire for intimacy and the social variant. On the other hand, there might be a relation between a lower desire for intimacy and aspies. But your posts show a lot of openness, which might be seen as a fairly high desire for intimacy. So I don't understand.

I've read you don't have TV. Guess what, I don't have a TV either. My collegues don't understand it at all. This can be related to fives. I know someone else without a TV, and she's a 5 (I know conclusions about this require a statistical approach).

Like I've read in another person's post: I live happily alone.
I'm still confused, whether I'm aspie or not. I see more similarities between aspies and me than before, but also differences. I guess everbody is unique. What aspie test do you recommend?

Your Aspie score: 100 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 104 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

I answered all questions, but on some questions you can give any answer you like.

Everybody has all types in themselves. It will be most healthy to become balanced, to use thinking, feeling and doing, all three of him. I have to remind myself of that, I cannot "think" my house clean . See a type as a sort of innate preference.

Actually you, like everybody, are a unique human being who cannot be put into a category. But I'm convinced the enneagram is very useful as a model. Part of the texts in books and internet is nonsense and looks like horoscope stuff. I think the essential part will survive and will be proven to be scientific.

Yetti, I apologise if this post is too personal. From your first posts I thought "that's an 8 (leader)". Sorry, I automatically type people, not only at this forum, but I can imagine people not liking that. I still think now you're an 8.

From your photo, especially the young one, you radiate a certain strength (I realize I'm becoming less scientific now). Strong = 8.

An 8 sees the world from the point of view of doing (the other 2 possibilities are: thinking and feeling).

For an 8, feeling will be repressed. Take that positively. Your response to bullies is not: starting to cry. 8s can be rather hard. Except when they feel really safe with a loved one, then they drop their hard shell.
The 2 things left concerning internal processing are: doing and thinking. For an 8 that is thinking supports doing (not the other way around, not doing supports thinking).

So first, seeing the world from doing, and secondly, inside it is doing supported by thinking, that is all about doing! So 8s feel invincible. A can do attitude. Allrounders. They tend to overestimate their capabilities. And indeed you seem to be able to do anything, and want to learn what you cannot do yet. 8s like to help the underdog. I can write much more but leave it at this.

My guess is you would recognise much of yourself in Gurdjieff. Read "Meetings with remarkable men" by Gurdjieff. It's difficult to read a page without laughing.

Yes. Probably the whole rest of this day I will be thinking about that again. To modify the model I have in my head. To put aspieness into it.

I don't know whether this link is already in this thread:
http://www.9types.com/descr/baron2.html
Yetti, in this link scroll down and read relational 8 to check your type.

Yetti, do you have something like this (like an 8): you do something fully, or not at all? You said you were madly in love. That's an example: with full energy, excessive. You can be "on" or "off", nothing in between?

If you know yourself well, you can avoid unnecessary misery. If you know other people well you can avoid conflicts and make communication much easier. Every type has a pinch, a button you don't want to push. If I know a person's type, I know what not to do. And I know what to do.
For example a 4, don't ignore a 4. Respond to email immediately.
The worst thing you can do to 5s is to break confidence.
Don't critize a 1.
Give 2s a compliment.
The list is endless.
Common 8 pinches: Injustice; Not dealing directly with issues; People not taking responsibility for their own behaviour; Another's lack of truthfulness. And I know what to say to every type when they have been pinched.

What about the value in giving feedback; in forming effective teams.