This is very interesting. I think there is a lot of truth in what Seven said, and I love Ren Chou's "It should not be about separate groups saying understand me, it should be everyone trying to understand everyone whether they are NT, borderline, aspie, HFA, LFA or something else entirely."
I do a lot of diversity workshops, and i constantly encounter people who think they understand all ethnic groups because they themselves are part of a particular ethnic group. -- for example, "I'm Portuguese, so of course I understand Mexicans." No. Portuguese and Mexicans may both be non-Anglo, and they may have a tenuous linguistic connection, so they may both understand the non-WASP-in-America experience, but the differences between them preclude an assumption of "sameness."
It's just like what Seven said about aspies and autistics. Thy both know the non-NT experience, but they may be so far apart on the "spectrum" that they may have pretty limited understanding of each other.
To take it a step farther, I am not really NT because of my ADHD, so I have some idea what it's like to be "non-NT" -- but ADHD is not AS. So I can only "know" about Aspies what I can learn by reading, living with, and working with Aspies. And I never pretend to know much about people with autism. It's very outside my experience. What I can do is what Ren Chou said -- try to understand and learn.
first off, i hate political correctness and i never am politically correct, you said "the few aspies who are verbal only answer when spoken to, usually asked a question" which is bull. simple.
and no offence but the world isnt black and white, labeling it that was is not very smart becuase its just so incomplete and inaccurate. only SOME aspies think that way, NOT all or even most. though the ones who do think in black and white almost always assume all aspies do it, at least thats what they tell me. i know its not true, however.
categorizing is one thing, but doing it black and white is just bad, because everything IS grey, there is no black or white in life, not one ive found anyway. your categories might be fine like it would be one thing if your statistics were accurate but they are far from it. i catagorize but i leave it with like millions of strings attached and loop holes becuase nothing is ever as simple as that.
Maybe if you took the time to read what I said, I said "I think that way," not that anyone else should, etc.
I know the world is grey. But I said "I have difficulty with abstract thinking."
Not that you or anyone else does, or should. Abstract thinking is a serious problem for me.
first off, i hate political correctness and i never am politically correct, you said "the few aspies who are verbal only answer when spoken to, usually asked a question" which is bull. simple.
and no offence but the world isnt black and white, labeling it that was is not very smart becuase its just so incomplete and inaccurate. only SOME aspies think that way, NOT all or even most. though the ones who do think in black and white almost always assume all aspies do it, at least thats what they tell me. i know its not true, however.
categorizing is one thing, but doing it black and white is just bad, because everything IS grey, there is no black or white in life, not one ive found anyway. your categories might be fine like it would be one thing if your statistics were accurate but they are far from it. i catagorize but i leave it with like millions of strings attached and loop holes becuase nothing is ever as simple as that.
thats another difference possibly, ive never met a kanner who thought black and white.
To tell someone that their way of thinking is not very smart and "just bad" does not excuse a lack of diplomatism--you still are accountable for making someone else feel bad.
I talked to you in PMs and for example, never said "your moodiness is just bad and not very smart," in fact I had no misgivings about your Kanner's/MFA whatsoever, and treated you tactfully. I was expecting that you would do the same for me.
I don't assume every Aspie thinks black and white. I never said that.
i understood the first part but not the rest :s sorry.
Don't be sorry. (Actually, reading over what I wrote, I barely understand it myself. Must have been half asleep, or something. But words - although easy enough when I'm writing fiction - do come hard when I'm trying to talk about something important.)
people actually say "you cant be autistic becuase your not retarted" very very often. then i go explaining what autism really is and they just say "oh. i never knew that. are you Sure thats true? i dont think it is."
Well sounds to me like "people" who say that are simply falling prey to misguided stereotypes. You could always find some good reference materials to point them towards, I suppose.
Personally I really don't feel comfortable about over-generalisations regarding any group. (And to say "most..." still counts as an over-generalisation in many cases.) I've met nice people from every walk of life. Even... dare I say it? Even... NTs.
And I guess what I was trying to explain is that I would never dream of saying half the bad stuff you claim that aspies say. And I'm aspie. (and proud of it)
(Add a happy razzy for happiness, ok?)
I usually use the word "some" or "many"... is that okay?
Fellas my little boy is autistic (HFA) and I understand him a hell of a lot better than his mother does. (She is NT) Does this mean I am a better parent for this perception? No. I can not, despite this wonderful insight, teach him to be better at adapting to new situations, resist stimming or to social better. THese are my weaknesses too. Why?
I am diagnosed Aspie after all.
Or perhaps we are similar if not the same.
So try to draw lines in the sand if it helps. I just think that everyone of us who s on the spectrum is different from the neurological mainstream.
NT is different to those on the spectrum and there is a similarity to all people on the spectrum that is not present in NTs. All people on the spectrum are not the same. We do have a common denominator though.
Well there's a lot of research that indicates that those with Asperger's aren't "convincingly" on the autistic spectrum, it's more just an unusual personality type, and that's the long and short of it.
Yes mate there are a lot of very weird conclusions draw from biased, ill-research or implausible research. I would reckon that if you scoured the realms of scientific literature of the last fifty years you would find that many contradictory "evidence" on autism, as to the cause, effects, management or even "cure". I think it is great that forums like this exist where we can share our knowledge, feelings and experiences about this. I reckon Gareth and Amy have done a really good thing by doing this.
Oh I think people with AS have unusual personalities too. Ususal personality would equate with being similar to everyone else or NT wouldn't it?
Well the question is if it's possible to have Asperger's, and yet still be non-autistic.
Some say yes, that many with Asperger's "just have an autistic personality," without having the significant developmental problems.
So I dunno what to think, anymore...
I only hope they actually thought about what was written rather than just shutting out opposing viewpoints. I doubt some of them read what you wrote, in truth, as they perform the snap-judgements, nit-picking and stereotyping you pointed to as part of the reason you began this forum.
That said, I have also heard rational voices in here, and while I have contributed naught but commentary/opinion, I enjoyed reading this.
I certainly hope you don't include me in the dubious category you describe above... I was only giving my two cents on various things.
I can be quite rational, but not always when my more impulsive/reactive side gets in the way. 
Well there's a lot of research that indicates that those with Asperger's aren't "convincingly" on the autistic spectrum, it's more just an unusual personality type, and that's the long and short of it.
That's not strictly speaking true - "those with Asperger's" includes people who are more HFA than AS, and it is not "all" with AS. There seems to be a "broader autistic phenotype" or "autistic personality" that a subgroup of those diagnosed with AS fall into, but this does not include all with AS. (Most of Asperger's original cases would be diagnosed with autism for example)
Well said... I believe I oversimplified/overgeneralized my original statement. 
I guess the "nebulous" nature of the Autistic Spectrum does not make it invalid. It's just that humans are never easy to categorise, and the key lies in the word "spectrum".
I think the word tapestry works much better than spectrum, because a spectrum is too two-dimensional to apply to autism. Lisa Blakemoore-Brown wrote of a tapestry in her book "Re-weaving the autistic tapestry" and it makes a lot of sense.
There are dozens of traits that are aspects of autism, plus at least as many developmental differences that have been noted among those with autism (some do X faster than others, some slower, some skip steps etc.) and not only the severity of those traits but most importantly the amount and WHICH traits one has, makes a huge difference in how someone "presents".
And I do think that there are combinations of traits that can occur in someone otherwise presenting as "NT" as well, where they then manifest as say a strong personality type, or as a learning difference or disability etc.
I wonder how a specialist can sort through all these numerous layers and concepts and so on, in an adult seeking a diagnosis--especially if the adult in question isn't outwardly "Aspie-like"?
In this case I would suppose it depends on which specialist you go to?
Well honestly while reading this, I do have to say I don't get LFA or HFA for that matter. But Honestly Seven, your not making yourself look good by villianizing us Aspies. Acting like we "*** around with you" This sort of finger pointing makes me angry and frustrated. I understand that you want to gain information. But I feel like we're the big bad guys. And I don't like that
I remember doug from high school and he was LFA, great guy I got along with him well. Though I don't always get LFA or even other Aspies, infact I have rule that states I will never get intimate with one (Aspies). >> If you wish to break boundries, and open minds. Then follow your own advice. Not all of use thinks "We get Austics" Cause I don't
What's wrong with getting intimate with an Aspie?
Just curious why you would think this is a "good rule" to follow.
Because the last person idea was text-book aspie, and after a while I hated the relationship. I had more date experiance than him(infact he had none) and I felt that I was dating a thirteen year old.
Well after reading that tidbit of incredible ignorance and getting repulsed by it, I must say you sound a bit like a thirteen-year old yourself.
People with AS don't appreciate the "poor social/emotional intelligence = 30 year old teenager" kind of thing... even if it's not about us, in particular.
I would like to know Why my first posts to this thread were so provocative to people here.
Would you? Would you really like to know why people in this thread -- and in other threads -- are angered and offended by you posts?
I don't think you do.
I would like to know Why my first posts to this thread were so provocative to people here.
Would you? Would you really like to know why people in this thread -- and in other threads -- are angered and offended by you posts?
I don't think you do.
I think it's because of his morbid, H.R. Giger-esque avatar...
I have no problems with you being picky.
What I do have a problem with is you saying things like, "I want a guy who is far more mature" than an Aspie, etc.
100% agreement here - personal choice and preference is one thing, but generalisations from ONE person with AS who was not to one's taste to ALL guys with AS are not fair.
Yeah, if you're happy with your guy, why the need to keep on criticising Aspie men?
