Aspies For Freedom

Who says that? People you meet online, or real life?

To be honest, I have no idea -- apart from those who have actually stated so -- who here is aspie, who is NT, and who is kanner, and even who is borderline aspie/nt.

Can I just add before my computer battery runs out (I know it's going to come out in totally the wrong way because I never know what to say when it's something important.) that personally I never think that anyone as expressive as you, Seven, is in the least way *** or anything like that and I would never DREAM of patronising you. (For what it's worth, even if it's worth nothing.)

I think it's hard to have people say - especially NT parents of autie kids - "well you don't really know anything so..." because that automatically devalues...

I can't think of words to say so I'll just say "something or other"

...That's going to sound so wrong -- I hope not.

- but I have to stop because my computer is low on battery. -

All this talk of black and white and grey... Yes I get the meaning of this 'literally'. I don't, however think that way.

I think in colour.

Don't be sorry. (Actually, reading over what I wrote, I barely understand it myself. Must have been half asleep, or something. But words - although easy enough when I'm writing fiction - do come hard when I'm trying to talk about something important.)

Well sounds to me like "people" who say that are simply falling prey to misguided stereotypes. You could always find some good reference materials to point them towards, I suppose.

Personally I really don't feel comfortable about over-generalisations regarding any group. (And to say "most..." still counts as an over-generalisation in many cases.) I've met nice people from every walk of life. Even... dare I say it? Even... NTs.

And I guess what I was trying to explain is that I would never dream of saying half the bad stuff you claim that aspies say. And I'm aspie. (and proud of it)

(Add a happy razzy for happiness, ok?)

Autism is autism. We ought to stick up for each other, no matter what labels we've got, whether we talk, what our IQs are, and whether or not we want to have jobs or families. It really is silly to divide up the spectrum when what we need is unity. And anyway, even the NTs, who are so good at generalizing and sticking folks into categories, can't make up their minds about who's who--why should we care?

I guess the "nebulous" nature of the Autistic Spectrum does not make it invalid. It's just that humans are never easy to categorise, and the key lies in the word "spectrum".

Take, as an example, the colour spectrum. Some shades of orange have a little red in them, some are almost red. But at what point do you say that orange is really red, or orange is really yellow. (ie. No longer orange?) What colour is an Autumn leaf?

Literal answer to rhetorical question: You can't. You have to put down an arbitrary dividing line.

And even then, the autumn leaf could have multiple shades on it,  so that the color you called it would depend on how you looked at it.

Well, all anyone can do in this world is to try. You know, try to be open minded. Try not to be awful. Try to understand, I suppose.

Sounds like something that could be said about any group of people. Or people in general, really.

A little cliched but some part of me likes this analogy. I guess I chose to think about the "spectrum" because I like to think about what words really mean, and Autistic "spectrum" is the most commonly used term.

Oh. I forgot to say. I like the idea of "do unto others" - that the best way to be treated well is to treat people well. It's not easy, but I hope always to be respectful of other people. I use the word "I" because I can only really speak for myself.

I still believe that everyone has valuable experience to contribute. I cannot say what other people's experience is because that is other people. Not me.

As for the "no dating Aspies" rule, it's kind of limiting, isn't it?

It's like, maybe you have a series of relationships.

First, you have a bad experience with an Aspie so you stop dating aspies.

Second, you have a bad experience with a blonde person, so you stop dating blonde people.

Third, you have a bad experience with a big person, so you stop dating big people

Fourth, you have a bad experience with a small person, so you stop dating small people.

Before you know it, the only people you have left to date are size 14 brunettes, nobody who comes from Asia, Australia or anywhere in Western Europe. No aspies, goths, bogans, university students, or anyone who likes sports or movies. You won't date people from cities, you won't date people from farms, and you won't date people with blue eyes or freckles. You won't date people with pets and you won't date anyone who goes running every morning...

...And the next thing you know, the only possible dating partner is a rather lonely looking sheep...

JennaP, please do not be offended by this question. I'm merely curious.

Would you place yourself on the spectrum?

Well, as far as I see it... (Thoughts)

We are individuals. We belong to groups, because of similarities to each other. And people make assumptions based on groups, I suppose. Making judgements is a survival tool (as in, "is this likely to kill me?") but not always right.

I do not personally believe that being aspie, kanner, or otherwise is enough information for a solid value judgement. (As in, "this person is X. Someone else I knew was X. They were an arsehole. Therefore, this person whom I don't actually know must be an arsehole too.") Replace X with anything -- white, black, Chinese, aspie... NT.... and I think people can see my point.

...Maybe. Perhaps I'm just talking out of my bum. But I'm still trying to make sense of the misplaced notion that people can be perceived as arseholes because they come from X group.

It's possible to have severe AS. If you have good verbal abilities, and spoke on time as a child, categorize yourself as "low-functioning AS" (if you have trouble with the daily-life stuff) or "severe Asperger's" (if it's more social stuff). I don't particularly like "severe" because that makes it sound really bad, but I don't know of another term. I call my own AS "moderate to severe", depending on the day and the mood and how much energy I have...

Both literally and figuratively, if there was no black and there was no white, there would be no grey.

Forgive me if this is irrelevant.

I didn't really know where to put it.

I was thinking about how weird it would feel if a bunch of experts should suddenly claim that AS isn't even related to autism. (Like they said that Pluto wasn't really a planet -- that was weird.)

(I know that relatively few years ago, no-one really thought about any autistic "spectrums".)

It's strange that so much discussion revolves around how to differentiate one from the other -- there is a difference -- but I'm thinking about how often one thing morphs into something very much like the other.

And for me, I can change from day to day, hour to hour. Which is why I have trouble seeing where any kind of clear dividing line might lie.

Again, I speak for myself because I do not believe I can speak for anyone else.