Excuse me Seven, but I did NOT say "the few aspies who are verbal only when spoken to..." I said "the few autists..."
Im beginning to think that perhaps its time to redefine so-called "classic autism". What Im implying is that there are people on the Spectrum who are given the autist label who dont really fit the clinical description. But for persons who are on the Spectrum who have No desire for social interaction and no interest in other people-how would you describe Them in terms of a diagnostic label? BTW, I was told by a shrink-the one who diagnosed me with asperger syndrome, that one feature of autism is the apparent lack of emotions-or at least acting as though one does not experience emotions.
i MENT the few autistics, not the few aspies, if you remeber, i have those verbal problems.
id come up with a new sublable for those people.
that shrink was stupid by the way.
To tell someone that their way of thinking is not very smart and "just bad" does not excuse a lack of diplomatism--you still are accountable for making someone else feel bad.
I talked to you in PMs and for example, never said "your moodiness is just bad and not very smart," in fact I had no misgivings about your Kanner's/MFA whatsoever, and treated you tactfully. I was expecting that you would do the same for me.
I don't assume every Aspie thinks black and white. I never said that.
first of all i dont even have tact. tact is like being careful not to offend people right? i only know how to say what i think. and i was speaking generally not fussing at you. actually most of that was me fussing at Z. and honestly i cant see that type of thinking to be logical, becuase its like seeing a false reality, becuase things are just plain not black and white, am i supposed to lie and say i find that logical?
Fellas my little boy is autistic (HFA) and I understand him a hell of a lot better than his mother does. (She is NT) Does this mean I am a better parent for this perception? No. I can not, despite this wonderful insight, teach him to be better at adapting to new situations, resist stimming or to social better. THese are my weaknesses too. Why?
I am diagnosed Aspie after all.
Or perhaps we are similar if not the same.
So try to draw lines in the sand if it helps. I just think that everyone of us who s on the spectrum is different from the neurological mainstream.
NT is different to those on the spectrum and there is a similarity to all people on the spectrum that is not present in NTs. All people on the spectrum are not the same. We do have a common denominator though.
wrong. sometimes auties and aspies can be exact oposites,ive met people on the spectrum who could have been a bizzaro-seven, serisoul. not everyone is as similar as you and your boy or even similar in any way nessisarilly.
thats part of my point, again, we do not ALL have things in common, most of us do, sure, but not all of us.
Yes mate there are a lot of very weird conclusions draw from biased, ill-research or implausible research. I would reckon that if you scoured the realms of scientific literature of the last fifty years you would find that many contradictory "evidence" on autism, as to the cause, effects, management or even "cure". I think it is great that forums like this exist where we can share our knowledge, feelings and experiences about this. I reckon Gareth and Amy have done a really good thing by doing this.
Oh I think people with AS have unusual personalities too. Ususal personality would equate with being similar to everyone else or NT wouldn't it?
Well the question is if it's possible to have Asperger's, and yet still be non-autistic.
Some say yes, that many with Asperger's "just have an autistic personality," without having the significant developmental problems.
So I dunno what to think, anymore...
that 'research' is ill-researched indeed. if you want to take someoens word for it, dont take some underranked shrinks, take someoen who lives in a whole spectrumed famillys word for it;
aspergers IS part of the spectrum.
a parent with aspergers is likley to have an autistic child and vice versa. they are imediately linked, this has been proven in genetic research, brain scans, etc.
Guys you know what would be really terrible (if it was to ever happen)? Imagine if we start trying to create dissension in our populance by seeking to divide the autistic community (which is approxiamately 2% of the population) into those people who are autistic enough to be classified as autistic and those that aren't and through personal opinion and prejudice further seek to classify and re-classify autistic people. Does that sound disempowering to you?
Does to me. I could try at this point to ratify my diagnosis based on what I would hope to be compelling evidence as to my "right" to be considered "on the spectrum" or "autistic" or "HFA" or "Aspergic". Maybe I could do this successfully. Maybe not. You know what, I am not going to.
One thing I will say to you all is that I will be more than a little angry if anyone on this forum would has the self-righteous arrogance to question a diagnosis by specialists given to me for a condition that does affect damn near every aspect of my socialisation and interpretation of the world or to cast judgment on me for what they may in their opinion deem my stance on any aspect of autism.
Not that I think anyone would do that. I think anyone coming to this forum understands that this forum is about sharing, learning from each other and find a commonplace to connect to. It is a very positive thing. I don't think there is any real push from any group or individual in this forum to push that barrow or to create disharmony.
We do all have some common ground. We are not just Nts with "geeky" or "nerdy" personalities. We are not all the same either. Autism affects us all in different way as the replies to any post will confirm. Isn't it nice though that a population which is outnumbered 49 to 1 in society has a safe haven like this where they can exist and connect with people kinda like they are without being flamed, accused of bigotry, being isolated from their peers or being bullied?
Too much of this kind of behaviour in the real world
Thoughts anyone?
2%?
try 20% if people were "properly diagnosed"
2 teenagers in an average american high school classroom is on the spectrum, and 80% of them dont know it. my calculations could be off,depending on the area. and will be too low in the future, as the "epidemic really is spreading" (i suspect its adpatation to advancing technology and autism will have hold of atleast 40% of the population once developed)
next, professional diagnosis does not make you any "more truly on the spectrum" than someone self-diagnosed, which i assume you werent implying, but you sounded really uppity with the context of "professional diagnosis" so im just mentioning, dont knock the ones who dont have a prof diagnosis.
my thoughts are that you have no idea what this topic is about because your WAY off topic. you sound like you read the title and assumed this topic was saying "autistics are real and aspergers arent" which is not even within a possible range of what its really about.
some of us do not have common ground, you dont seem to understand that people on the autistic spectrum can be just as vastly different as two non-autistics can, we are all individuals, and while most of us have common ground, it does not always turn out that we all do.
part of the point of this thread is that no, we cant ALL have that, and we DONT all have it here, I personally have been given a very very unpleasant time by multiple people who will remain unnamed, becuase (fundamentally) of our differences in aspie/kanners. at this point in time, this place may be a safe haven fro aspies but SOME of said aspies do not welcome kanners. they got all over my case becuase i "speak oddly, or act a little different than an aspie might." the exact same thing has happened to other kanners here, not just me.
blunty, if you want to yell at someone, go yell at those people, not at me.
I still go with the 2% though and agree I may in time be proved wrong. We are definately in the minority though.
I will say three things about and to you here though.
Firstly: You are tactless. You say what you mean regardless. I call it honest. I find tact very difficult and broken relationships and friendship are testament to this. LOL. So it is cool with me.
Secondly: You believe some Aspies are intolerant and self-absorbed. You think that many are not willing to see difference between all those on the autism spectrum. I agree. It is not (unfortunately) the case that because we are all on the spectrum somewhere that we will get along, understand the intricasies of the other or even make an effort. It is a shame.
Thirdly: I think you did a good thing in joining here in Feb. I hope like me you will learn a lot, share a lot and connect a lot with us all.
zero : your older than me, it was 2% when you werein school im sure, but even the media calls it 5%, and ive studied the schools where i live, interviewed the students, and found that an average of 1-3 students in every class was noticabley (noticabley for someone educated on it anyway) on the spectrum. most people do not even know what the word "aspergers" is relevent to, unfortunitly, so its way underdiagnosed.
i gather it should be at the very least 15% and probably is 20%
one : thank you! i hate when people tell me to be more tactful, as if i would be even if i could be, tact is annoying. danny is tactful, i think he loves to mess with my head and calls that tact, ew.
second : some aspies are very open minded and well-studied, but yes, many are just "boogers" as my little sister would say. many would like to learn about others, atleast, if tehy knew they didnt understand, which is why i started this thread. if tehy know tehy dont know something they will go research it, its great to do that. some are "just boogers" still.
three : yes i have studied people here too. i am less social than most aspies ive met so i probably dont want to make friends here, but i am interested in swapping information at the least.
well, seven. do you feel a little better ,now? i have a friend her name sarah, shes autisic like you,i think. she doesnt talk much but i like listen to her talk.(poor spelling skills) i have statement make to your black and white comment, for me the world is mostly black or white:yes or no.but i'm learning maybe:grey.
i like to read what you have to say,too. it turns heads, very informative.
i dnt feel better at all.
teh way i talk makes peopel furious with em eevrywhere i go, and im rarley informed what i said taht offended people, much less why.
i recently asked many people who were angery at me why they were, and some of them atcually agev me an answer, tehy said its becuase i sound like a bitchy, egotistical, overly emotional, attention-seeking, know-it-all. whichis just plain Weird becuase i am very antisocial and hate attention, i understand teh egcomment ebcuase even though i am not egotistical my bets freind IS, very, and i immitate hsi speach patterns sense my own are incomlpete (graduated echolalia) but i also realized i cant do anything to "fix" how i talk.
remember they have to try and fit the NT world just as we do.
they like it when someone walks over to their side, just as we do when a NT tried to get into our world and learns to communicate with us.
i feel sad that seven has only had bad experiences, but i understand him very well, many of the aspies ive met i do not connect with, i feel that they tend to be more selfish then authies but again its not a law, some are more some are less. just as everybody else.
seven, i hope you stick around here, or atleast dont go away and feel that nobody understands you.
that would be a shame, atleast from my perspective.
i decided to stay becuase its the same everywhere i go, but usually worse.
essentially, i was kciked out of a group of NTs who invited em to tell them mroe about autism, but threw me out becuase of teh way i talk, they said i "treated people baddly and they got many many complaints about my bluntness" but refused to be specific, and said "we dont believe you are autistic, either, just a rude little girl who wants attention."
so i asked soem aspies who i knew essentally hated me, why tehy did, and they said teh same thing. they said they dont believe i am autistic becuase i dont act like them, them being aspies, and they hat eteh way i word things and feelliek i attack them, and tehy say i sound angery whcih is odd becuase i am usually like a robot (not emotional at all- when i am emotional i sound like a 5 year old though)
and i talked to another girl who had the same communication problems. she gave em advice but it really wasnt enough to make me able to talk like normal people. i have basically realized, no matter how hard i try, and id o try my best, i will always be called a fake autistic, and always misunderstood.
i am feeling very lethargic atthat realisation.
it would be really nice if everyone knew about verbal kanners, becuase all the ones ive met and heard about talk just like me, and because going mute is a pain in the butt, as much as i prefer it i feel like its "bad" if i do.
okay let me ask then, how many verbal kanners have you you actually met? becuase every verbal kanner i know gets told the same thing "i dont think your autistic"
and what makes you think i am not autistic? i am very steriotypical, and no one who knows me in person has ever said that, but people who have only spoken with me via text Have said that before obviously.
My son has kanners autism and is verbal. Several of his friends are. I have spent countless hours researching this topic. I am actually pretty good at spotting people on the spectrum.
What I stated before were just the actual thoughts that went through my mind when I first read this thread. My thoughts are my own and they could be wrong. I thought it was interesting when you posted that people call you a "fake autistic" because you just do not come across as autistic to me.
only people on forums do sometimes, people who have talked tome on messenger or in chat, or in person, dont.
logic seems circular rather than linear
What does that mean?
Perhaps its just way too abstract for me to understand.
Could you give me a example?
Logic is logical isent it?
I mean either it is or it is not.
Er, I got rather baffled by that representation too, but if I studied it long enough I could probably make sense of it.
yes i guess i could figure it out aswell, but i just dont have the focus for it today nor the day i read it the first time.