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Anyone else here familiar with General Semantics, as initially explored by Korzybski and carried on by Hayakawa and others?

marco Wrote:
Mh, I have tried to read a few chapters of "Science and sanity --- An introduction to non-aristotelian systems and
general semantics" and it was, wee!, difficult. While I "think" to have understood the very basic concept, the full
line of reasoning is beyond my understanding. I have to say that I have no psycho background studies.



It is a polemic work, not didactic, and is best understood in such context.  A stumbling block that I had was how he made such a big deal over things that were, to me, commonplace.  I finally realized that this was because General Semantics had already penetrated our culture to some limited extent.

Semantics is not the same thing as General Semantics.  Korzybski made a grave mistake when he chose the name of his philosophy, a grave mistake, indeed.  Any good GS practitioner will tell you that it was a mistake.  Time binding, for example, is not part of semantics, although it is part of GS, for example.
What exactly is General Semantics?  I'm sorry to say I don't have any background in it, though it sounds interesting.  I figured, even though I'm going to go look it up, it would be helpful if someone would briefly explain/define it here.  Thanks!
The following introductions appear adequate, anything I write would merely be redundant to them:

http://www.xenodochy.org/gs/
http://aliciamattgs.tripod.com/index.html

rossco Wrote:
It is kinda good to have in reserve but I like to take people on their merits and not overly expose their logical flaws or failures in their analysis on things.


Failure of analysis is death, not just for one, but sometimes for thousands or millions of people.  Failure of analysis put Hitler in power.  Failure of analysis--what is also known as "mindlessness" in recent cognitive literature, is fine for people who just want to be industrial drones, but if they have any influence on others, failure of analysis is a recipe for disaster.

In an autocracy or oligarchy, failure of analysis is fine for most people to blithely blunder through life upon.  In any society in which decisions of the people are given some weight, it is the way to self-destruction.

We can no longer afford to be a mindless society.

DogBrain Wrote:
Failure of analysis is death, not just for one, but sometimes for thousands or millions of people.  Failure of analysis put Hitler in power.  Failure of analysis--what is also known as "mindlessness" in recent cognitive literature, is fine for people who just want to be industrial drones, but if they have any influence on others, failure of analysis is a recipe for disaster.

In an autocracy or oligarchy, failure of analysis is fine for most people to blithely blunder through life upon.  In any society in which decisions of the people are given some weight, it is the way to self-destruction.

We can no longer afford to be a mindless society.

I don't know anything about semantics. But I know a lot about mind and consciousness, which are opposites. Mind is unconsciousness. So DogBrain, what is needed in society is consciousness, not mind. The Hitler issue was related to unconsciousness. When there is only mind(ing) then you can call that madness, 100% unconsciousness.

To clarify what I mean: I see "analysis" as part of "mind". Too much of it and you will "analyse" love away (love is irrational).

Five Wrote:

I don't know anything about semantics. But I know a lot about mind and consciousness, which are opposites. Mind is unconsciousness.


Really?  And just what professional cognitive science journals does this hypothesis of yours appear in?  When I write of mindlessness/mindfulness, I use them as the professional cognitive scientists use the terms.  So, if my reading of the professional literature is in error, please point me toward the proper scientific literature.

Five Wrote:
To clarify what I mean: I see "analysis" as part of "mind". Too much of it and you will "analyse" love away (love is irrational).


How is analysis automatically unconscious while lack of thought--lack of analysis--is automatically conscious?

Likewise, love isn't automatically irrational, it can lead to irrational conclusions and behavior, but it is not automatically irrational.

DogBrain Wrote:
Really?  And just what professional cognitive science journals does this hypothesis of yours appear in?  When I write of mindlessness/mindfulness, I use them as the professional cognitive scientists use the terms.  So, if my reading of the professional literature is in error, please point me toward the proper scientific literature.

It is difficult for me to communicate the right tone in a written text. I should use other words. My opinion stated as a fact can be interpreted as offensive and arrogant, I should keep that in mind.

I don't know the professional literature. Probably when I would read the professional literature, I will see it as incorrect. My source is religious literature which, in my opinion (I'm improving!), is correct. Mindfulness and consciousness are different things, as I see it.

DogBrain Wrote:
Likewise, love isn't automatically irrational,

According to me, love is a feeling, is irrational. Rationality and thoughts/thinking and logic are more or less the same things. Feelings are the opposite. You can apply logic to objectively observable behaviour, but the feeling itself is irrational, as I see it.

.jaime. Wrote:
Would you expand, Five?

I guess my perception/definition of the word mind is different from yours. That's why confusion arises. To me, mind consists of thinking, feeling and impulses/instinct. Mind to me is unconsciousness because automatically, after you were born and grew up, thinking, feeling and impulses/instinct developed. You are reactive then. Mindfullness will not be the ideal.

Without consciousness you only react, you are not in control, anybody can push your buttons. What is needed is consciousness to be able to respond (not to react), to be your own master. Consciousness is "above" analysis.

Five Wrote:

DogBrain Wrote:
Likewise, love isn't automatically irrational,

According to me, love is a feeling, is irrational.


Love is a feeling--neither rational nor irrational.  Most basic emotional states are a-rational.  Our response to them determines whether or not we are being rational or irrational.

Quote:
You can apply logic to objectively observable behaviour


What would you call an alteration in neurotransmitter levels?  Is that objectively observable?

Dopamine and endorphine spike:  interpreted as "falling in love".
Chronic oxytocin elevation:  interpreted as "long-term love" (be it amor, friendship, etc.)

I am not saying that our emotive conditions are "merely" or "just" changes in neurotransmitter levels.  There is an interpretive layer to it, as well.  The "feelings" we claim to have are meanings we assign to neurobiological states, but it is the objective, observable neurobiological change that comes first.  Since it is a matter of interpretation and assignation of meaning, it is amenable to rational forms of thought.

This, of course, flies in the face of all the pretty little tales our society wants us to believe.  We are "supposed" to be helpless in the face of our "emotions".  We are "supposed" to not be able to actively decide when it's time to ride the wave and when it's time to step back.  Or if we can do it, it means that we are somehow "damaged" for daring to question our society's dogmas attached to "feelings".

But it is this assignation of meaning, this "extra" step that actually does give true depth to these "feelings".  We have frontal cortices, and they are not distinct and separate from the amygdala.  Only when all mental faculties are involved, including the rational, is there full experience to any emotive state.

Five Wrote:

.jaime. Wrote:
Would you expand, Five?

I guess my perception/definition of the word mind is different from yours. That's why confusion arises. To me, mind consists of thinking, feeling and impulses/instinct. Mind to me is unconsciousness because automatically, after you were born and grew up, thinking, feeling and impulses/instinct developed. You are reactive then.


This is known as "mindlessness" by cognitive scientists.  You are free to go around and tell the tens of thousands of them that they're wrong, but I doubt they'll change all their terminology around you.

Quote:
Without consciousness you only react, you are not in control, anybody can push your buttons. What is needed is consciousness to be able to respond (not to react), to be your own master.


This is known as "mindfulness" by cognitive scientists.

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