Aspies For Freedom

Psychologist says teen competent for trial
But ruling put off in school slaying

By Jonathan Saltzman, Globe Staff  |  March 27, 2007

CAMBRIDGE -- A state-hired psychologist has concluded that a Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School student is competent to stand trial in the stabbing death of a schoolmate, but a judge put off ruling on competency yesterday after the teenager's lawyer challenged the diagnosis.

John Odgren, 16, was evaluated for 20 days at Westborough State Hospital after his lawyer had argued that Odgren became suicidal following his arrest in January and incarceration at a maximum-security juvenile facility at the Plymouth House of Correction.

When the judge announced yesterday that he was sending Odgren back to the Plymouth jail, the tall, bespectacled teenager from Princeton shouted an expletive in the Middlesex Superior courtroom and then said, "You send me back to Plymouth, I'm not coming back out."

Odgren is charged with killing James Alenson, 15, in a school bathroom on Jan. 19, a slaying that has raised questions about school safety and prompted debate about mainstreaming special-needs students. Prosecutors say Odgren tried to slash Alenson's throat before repeatedly plunging a 13-inch carving knife into the freshman, a quiet student whom he had never met. (YIKES! I guess that refutes the "revenge on a bully" theory...)

Prosecutors say the slaying was premeditated, alleging that Odgren had visited numerous websites about knives the night before and played a violent video game at home before leaving for school the morning of the killing. (Playing a violent video game proves premeditation? Every teenager I know must be premeditating murder, then...)

His lawyer, Jonathan Shapiro of Boston, has said Odgren had been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, a mild form of autism, and also with hyperactivity disorder and had been taking several medications. Odgren had no criminal record and had never acted violently before, Shapiro said.

Yesterday, Superior Court Judge Isaac Borenstein considered the results of an evaluation of Odgren by Hilary Ziven, a psychologist retained by the state Department of Mental Health. Her 30-page report has not been made public, and she declined to comment last night.

But Borenstein said Ziven had concluded that Odgren understands the charges and can assist in his defense. In addition, Ziven had determined that Odgren does not need further treatment at Westborough Hospital and can return to the Plymouth jail.

Shapiro vigorously disputed the findings, as Odgren's parents, Paul and Dorothy Odgren, clutched hands in the courtroom.

Shapiro said that Ziven herself had reported that Odgren cannot remember the slaying or his state of mind at the time, which, Shapiro argued, will make it impossible for the teenager to assist in his defense. "John essentially has amnesia, with respect to the incident," he said.

The judge, however, said the psychologist had supplied a "clear-cut opinion" that Odgren is competent to stand trial.

Shapiro also said that Odgren had improved dramatically while receiving treatment at Westborough and that it made no sense to return him to Plymouth if the judge might ultimately rule that the teenager is not competent.

In brief remarks to the judge, Assistant District Attorney Daniel Bennett said he had just received the evaluation and that the psychologist's assessment that Odgren is competent to stand trial "should be the end of it."

Borenstein said he will hold a hearing at which both sides can present evidence about competency. The next hearing is set for April 30, but the judge has not scheduled the competency hearing yet.

He asked two lawyers from the Department of Youth Services and the Department of Mental Health to make sure that officials at Plymouth monitor Odgren's mental health, in case he needs to return to Westborough.

Odgren's parents declined to comment after the hearing, as did the prosecutor.

But Shapiro said he was disappointed and expected that his client would again be placed on a suicide watch. Odgren, he said, suffered from nightmares in the jail and had struggled to get along with other detainees. "He's petrified of going back there," he said.

Before Odgren began classes last September at Lincoln-Sudbury, he had attended a small private school for special-needs students in rural Connecticut. Lincoln-Sudbury was at least his fifth school in five years.

Psychiatrists say that children with Asperger's often struggle with school transitions and that a move to a large public school with 1,600 students would not be easy. At Lincoln-Sudbury, he was enrolled in a special-needs program called Great Opportunities.

Prosecutors say that Odgren had threatened several students, and once chased a student down a hallway with a sharp object. Sudbury police have said that he brought a knife and toy gun to school on separate occasions last fall. Lincoln-Sudbury school officials, who have said they did not know of prior threatening behavior, are investigating the reports.

Shapiro has said most of the allegations are not true.

What we have here is a collision between neuroscience and satan--I mean attorneys.  An attorney will grasp at any straw to avoid having a client be held responsible.  What would be best would be for the court to rule that Asperger's does not absolve someone of responsibility nor was it a causitive factor.  It will be the DEFENSE that will keep saying "Asperger's made him do it."  The government's case will be "No, it didn't, Asperger's did NOT make him kill anybody."

It's the kid's own attorney who will try to demonize us all, not the government.

Well then, for the love of god, why the hell didn't they get him out of there before he killed somebody!?

Look, people, I remember my junior year at a backwater redneck school in the late '80s.  I was in the office gathering paperwork to take the PSAT when they brought this big black guy in and laid him on the floor, moaning.  Before I could fully take that in, I noticed the principal standing in front of another guy half the size of the victim, asking "Where's the weapon?"  This was a school stabbing, and the next day all I heard were a couple of rumors and nothing else.  No national news or any of that crap!  Not even local news as far as I knew.  I heard the rival school had one, on average, every day.  If it was happening at my little commode of a school, then I know it was happening everywhere.  I bet there's a school stabbing somewhere in the US every frickin' day!  And then one day, the perp just happens to have AS, and lo and behold it's national news, and another punch in the gut for all the aspies who haven't done anything wrong.  (Sorry, but I had to vent.)

I think the longer we wait to all pull together and take charge of our public image, the harder it's going to get.  (I'll save that for another thread, so we can stay on topic here.)

This Odgren kid had something else going on in his brain besides AS, so I don't want to hear a bunch of crap about how the AS made him do it.  They need to find out what it was and say it.  It might have something to do with the meds they had him on.  The other night, I took a peek at a website by a Columbine survivor, stating that the Columbine killers were on all kinds of meds.  A survivor who wanted to sue the pharmaceutical companies that made the meds found himself being brought into a room without his lawyer and threatened by the pharmaceutical companies' lawyers, basically with the threat of financial ruin.  I'll find the URL again if anyone's interested.

i think the paper said he had tourettes and several other thing that he was on meds for.news flash to the media: their are no meds for asperger/autism.

then we  lose face, they'll think we get a get out of jail free card  with our AS.

we get policially  hurt eather way, it just how much   that  we will face.

and  the  pro prenatal test fanaics gets a  power boost needless to say.

"the perp just happens to have AS, and lo and behold it's national news, and another punch in the gut for all the aspies who haven't done anything wrong. "

Yes, exactly.

On that same day, how many people did George W. Bush kill in Iraq? No, we don't care -- we want a sensational new "thing" to terrify the public; "Aspie Monsters are roaming the halls of your child's school with one thing on their minds: MURDER!"

http://www.hi.is/~okonomia/uploaded_imag...712860.jpg

"it is inevitable that any neurological or mental condition that has anything at all to do with behavior will be given a mention in murder cases, anything that can give a slightest hint into the psyche of the person."

The defense will do what it can to create the image of a kid who didn't understand or control his actions. The lawyer's job is to reduce the jury's perception of culpability. So yes, they will focus on any "disorder" they can find. but that's just 12 people the defense team is trying to influence.

My concern is with the media -- they will use the kids various "disorders" to sensationalize the whole case. It's the media that influence public perception of Asperger's.

Then that helps cement "Asperger == Murderer" in the mind of the mob, of course.

Blah blah blah--play one note long enough, and nobody will still think it's a whole song.  I've got news for you (given that you must be no older than 13 to think you have a "discovery").  "Leaders" are USUALLY given a free ride for the deaths they are responsible for.

What is the difference between a serial killer and a world leader?  World leaders' victims are numbered in the thousands and millions.

If the defense attorney tries to use it as an excuse, then he'll be saying that "My client can't be held responsible, Aspergers makes him into a killer WHO CANNOT CONTROL HIMSELF AND CANNOT BE MADE RESPONSIBLE."  That's what an "Asperger's defense" would boil down to.

Too bad you didn't bother to read this thread before you responded, thus looking like an idiot.  NEITHER of these alternatives has been chosen.  Instead, the consensus has been "It DOES NOT MATTER if he's Aspergic.  Asperger's should not be used to absolve someone of personal responsibility."

"Too bad you didn't bother to read this thread before you responded, thus looking like an idiot. "

Just shut the *** up, Dogbrain. What Gareth said is true of the reactions common to ANY group when one of their group members goes bad. Why do you call HIM an idiot when it's  YOU who don't get his point?

"Blah blah blah--play one note long enough, and nobody will still think it's a whole song. "

And that would certainly apply to your constant, pointless name-calling.

We understand that you're a miserable, bitter, angry person, Dogbrain, you've made that obvious since the day you arrived.

But why don't you save your juvenile rage for your soon-to-be-ex-wife. No wonder she's divorcing you and doesn't want her kids near you. It has nothing to do with your AS and everything to do with your cancerous personality. Don't use AS as an excuse. Like the kid in this news story, AS is entirely unrelated to your detestable actions.

OOPS! I just violated the policy in my signature. I'll try not to do it again.

"You think we'd rise above the NTs since so many of us have experienced exclusion, put downs enough in our own lives "

That seems so reasonable and logical -- I've always felt that part of the "gift" of being different is that it would make us understanding and supportive of others who are different -- but studies have showed just the opposite; "outsiders" tend to treat other "outsiders" pretty brutally. Sad...

I agree with you Max the Bear. And I do so from experience. I'm interested in understanding the reasons to my behavior. And I do not see the reasons as exculpatory.