Aspies For Freedom

Hi,

I am addressing Aspies who may be able to provide insight into which environment sounds best for my son, almost 6, who will be in 1st grade in the fall. He is leaving his Montessori school that ends at kindergarten.

So, in other words: if you could go back to grade school, where would you want your Mother to send you? Here are our choices:

(1) Montessori (free, charter) that goes up to 8th grade. He would be with 32  6-9 year olds in a very large classroom (it's like the size of three classrooms) with one lead teacher, and one co-teacher. In Montessori, the kids go at their own pace, and do individual work.  They are allowed to explore the classroom and work uninterrupted. They can work sitting on the floor on a rug or at a small desk. They have required daily stuff in math, reading, journal and something else I can't remember. They also do some small group lessons as well as "circle time" stuff.  This is a mixed age classroom, the philosophy being that it is more "normal" to have a mixture of older and younger kids because that's how society/family/community is.  Because it's a charter school, he would be able to get an IEP with services such as speech, etc. He would get gifted work as well.  Multi-sensory learning materials. Understand that children learn differently and respect it.

(2) Public school. 32 1st graders with one teacher. Good special needs program and gifted program.  He would get "pulled out" for these special things. He would get social skills training; speech; and advanced work. Safest route in some ways because they are experienced in special needs.

(3) Twice Exceptional Gifted with Disability self contained classroom with children who tested as Gifted but also have something like Aspergers, ADHD, etc. Would interact with the Neurotyps for recess, lunch, art, music, etc but in a self contained classroom called Uniquely Gifted. Very small class size of 12-15 kids maximum and 2-4 teachers.

Please let me know what you think of these choices and if you could do school over again, where would you want your Mother to send you!!!??  Thanks!!!

Hi,

Thanks for replies everyone.

Bottom line is:  Class size. I just know he will do better in a small class with low student/teacher ratio.

I want to mention that the Uniquely Gifted Classroom (#3 on the list) is very sensitive to the stigma thing. Also I think the kids are kind of treated like they are the special class "where the smart kids" go.  My understanding is that this earns them a bit more respect? Or am I wrong here?

There is another school in another district (that we are not considering, just giving it for comparison) that has a Highly Gifted self=contained classroom. All the kids have IQs of 140 or above and they are separated from the rest of the Neurotyps. So I think the Uniquely Gifted class we are considering almost has the same kind of "elite"  status.

Does that make sense?

Also:  Aspies, how much does class size matter to you? If you were in a small group of 12-15 kids who were pretty much like you with teachers that understood Aspergers? Would you want "Neurotyps" around to model social skills (ha ha ha) or would you prefer being around fellow Aspies?

Or would you want a group of mixed age group of 32 kids mostly Neuro-typs with some Quirky people thrown in (Montessori tends to attract the more creative parents/children or children with learning differences) with fewer teachers to support you?

Hope that makes sense. Thanks

Hi Callista, thanks for responding. When you say no distractions, that is going to be hard to do. Would you go for smaller, quieter class size with as few children as possible because of the noise/chatter?

And what about too many choices? Montessori has a lot of choices. Would it be better to have fewer choices/more structure? Or more freedom and independence? Thanks!

Hi Solana,
We are in Arizona. Here's an article about the Uniquely Gifted program.

Parent's Platform
Twice Exceptional Doesn't Have To Be Twice as Hard
Volume 6 / Issue 1 / Fall 2005
My daughter, Allison, has been exceptionally perceptive since she was born. The sheets in her bassinet irritated her the day we brought her home from the hospital, and she protested until we found ones that she liked. Her heightened sensitivities made her cognitively quick as a toddler; however, they also made her feel oppressed by the touch of others, overwhelmed by smells and noises around her, and disheartened that the world did not live up to her expectations.

At first, I worried about the things that kept Allison from functioning normally. During our unsuccessful attempts at traditional preschools, she became easily agitated in groups, had poor fine-motor skills, and was stubborn. A psychologist diagnosed her with obsessive-compulsive disorder and sensory integration dysfunction. I also realized that she was very bright: by her fourth birthday she could decode phonics, tell time, add fractions, and read music. I had never known that a person could be disabled as well as gifted and found the idea difficult to grasp.

Kindergarten was hard for our family and the teacher. Allison could not achieve at the level I had seen in her at home. She appeared academically average and lacking in self-control. Her giftedness would have slipped through the cracks had it not been for my persistence in sharing what I knew about her.

I researched giftedness to see if some of Allison’s traits were common among gifted children. To some extent, they were; for instance, I learned that gifted children are often highly sensitive to their environment. However, some of her differences, such as her poor handwriting, matched those of children who had learning disabilities such as dysgraphia. These children who are gifted and educationally challenged are considered twice exceptional. I was thrilled that educators were studying this interesting population of children.

I presented my research to our school’s principal. Allison was tested by the school psychologist and found to be highly advanced academically. I went to the administration and described a school I had read about in Albuquerque, New Mexico, that had a self-contained class exclusively for twice-exceptional children. The director of special education agreed to fund a similar program in our district. After an intriguing visit to observe the program in Albuquerque, the staff of Allison’s school, North Ranch Elementary, in Scottsdale, Arizona, started the only twice-exceptional self-contained classroom in the state. Although the process was difficult and sometimes uncomfortable, this classroom now caters to children of different ages, areas of talent, and types of disability.

Now Allison attends this program and is with children who have similar interests, struggles, and quirks. Her teacher is well trained in dual exceptionalities, and my daughter is moving forward for the first time in her educational experience. My persistence and the district’s openness created a haven for my daughter and these other children, who are experiencing success in school for the first time.

Parents whose children have difficulty learning and struggle in school despite traits of giftedness should consult professionals who are qualified to make a determination regarding dual exceptionalities. Next, they should learn what resources their district or community has to accommodate twice-exceptional learners. If no such programs are available to your child, look to parenting groups for gifted or challenged children in your area. In these groups you will probably find other parents of twice-exceptional children. Advocate, in numbers if possible, for programs to serve twice-exceptional children in your school district and at the state level. If you meet resistance, consider starting a charter school or a private school. Approach nearby universities to see if they would be interested in funding or sponsoring such a program.

Allison was fortunate. The administration understood that funding a twice-exceptional program was cost-effective, because these children would not function well in a typical setting. Instead of becoming at-risk, unrealized adolescents, they now have the opportunity to be brilliant, focused beacons of knowledge.
—Stephany Sanchez Fisher

Stephany Sanchez Fisher is an attorney and a special education advocate and consultant. She lives with her husband and daughter in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Wow. That does sound pretty good. Thanks for the information- I'm going to look into it. The school system where I live failed me very badly, and today I'm in something of a position to help improve it.

I don't know what kind of program would suit your son best, but I wish you good luck in finding him a good one. Let us know how it goes :-) I'd love to know what does or doesn't work for him.

I would go with the third program and not even worry about any so-called "stigma." It was always my experience that a self-contained classroom was best: better community and friendships, kids really free to follow their own educational agenda, etc. I was in a self-contained gifted program from grades 4-8 and as far as anyone knew at that time we were all neurotypical, but the other kids STILL looked at the class as a bunch of oddballs. No matter what they thought, I would not have traded that experience.

That's a great idea and I will be sure to check that out.  This is where the self-contained classroom (#3) makes me feel the safest/most nurturing environment, the teachers know what's going on with these kids and are experienced/specialists; when with the Montessori you don't know.  You get the wrong teacher in a big classroom, forget it!   But at least Montessori respects individual learning styles.

What kind of school did you ultimately go with? Please share and how old is your son? Thanks!

My son appears to be ADD without the hyperactivity and he did not flourish in Montessori where he went for kinder--there was not enough structure. He totally shied away from writing and started first grade WAAAAY behind. And has never completely caught up. Furthermore, they failed to nurture him in the areas that he WAS great in (reading, math). He spent lots of time learning how to open locks, play with blocks . . .

Mom Magnus-

When I read your initial post- #3 totally stuck out for me. What a great oppurtunity. I know a lot of others were afraid of the "oddball" stigma. And I guess I could see that... but I also think that that's kinda something that as an aspie you sort of have to deal with eventually... It seems that it would be better in a supportive environment with people that are going through the same thing- stronger in a group kinda thing?

Also- the montesori thing- I know they're really cool. But I personally couldn't imagine having that much free time. I don't think I could learn anything if people were roaming all around the room like that. Like others said- too many distractions- not enough structure. I didn't realize until I discovered my AS how much my well-being really is centered on structure. I have to know what comes next.

And I guess one could make the point that public school is the "school of hard knocks" under the "what doesn't kill us makes us stronger" philosophy. I, for one, have too many negative views of how things were handled for me. (I'm 26- so obviously I have no real bearings on what's going on right now and my oldest DD starts K in the fall so I'm not "involved" yet) But I still remember my 3rd grade teacher- every time we walked anywhere- telling my friend (had to be an aspie) "heel-toe-heel-toe-heel-toe" as if it was her personal goal to make the poor kid "normal"

wow-tangent. sorry.

I know, sorry I am new here. If it weren't for the email alerts that I get when a reply comes in, I'd be lost. I'm not quite getting this Reply system either

Yes, what you are saying is Extremely helpful. I am so happy to have posted here! Everyone is so cool and helpful.

Regarding the Montessori. You know, everyone has the impression that Montessori is "not structured." Not so. In our experience, there are a LOT of rules and a LOT of emphasis on respect for others and respect for the classroom materials. It is very "community" minded --- this is your classroom and you are a part of making it work and keeping it beautiful. They actually empower children with a lot of responsibility --- they let children do things that most people wouldn't expect small children to be able to do. They are given a lot of respect and independence. But that independence also has to be earned --- by the child following the rules of the classroom. This includes respect for other children on the playground and personal space issues too b/c they have to walk around each others' rugs on the floor where someone's "work" could be laid out.

I think people have the impression that kids can just do whatever they want. That's not true.  The way I see it, it is actually very structured -- they are "prepared" classrooms with everything child-sized and VERY organized.

What is NOT structured is time. It's not like 9-9:30 is math. 10-10:45 is reading. Yes, there are requirements for math, language every day, etc but the philosophy/method is that if a child is interested in something, he should be able to explore it as long as he wants. But he has to do those other requirements and also has to have a lesson first on any new "works" he wants to try. They can't just rummage through the room. They have to "ask for a lesson." The teacher then will "give the lesson" and show the child how it's done. Then the child has to do it back for the teacher to show that they understand. Then the child may do that lesson any time he wants as long as he has had a lesson on it.

The other main philosophy is that you don't interrupt the child. They are allowed to explore and do something they like or are fascinated with as long as they like......a little scary for an Aspie or someone on the spectrum??!! But the point is, the teacher does not interrupt a child. This is supposed to develop concentration and you're not supposed to interrupt them while they are figuring things out.
So, let's say a child chooses to do "Plant Care" which is a small tray with a real live houseplant on the tray. The child takes the tray to his small desk. On the tray is a small spray water bottle and cotton balls and Q=Tips in a cup. The child puts on the accompanying apron, and is free to do Plant Care (as long as he has had a lesson on it). This involves spraying the plant with water, and wiping it clean with the cotton balls and Q-tips. The kid can do this for a freakin' half hour if he wants to. The point is, he is learning many things from this activity and is not being interrupted. (I witnessed my child doing this and it was awesome because he was so meticulous and careful (he is not so much at home!). Then when he is done, the child has to put back everything the way he found it. Folds the apron; puts everything back with great care.

That just gives you an example. Yes, it would be like: Math, what do you want to work on for math? There is required stuff, and then there is the "free to explore the classroom" time. THIS is where people I think get the wrong impression.

The other thing that is great in Montessori is that they use REAL materials. For example when children are learning about money, they use REAL money. They aren't given a worksheet with drawings of pennies or dimes. The work with real pennies and dimes, etc. It is rooted in the real world -- there is no pretend kitchen. They really cook. There is a kitchen right there in the school that the kids cook in. I saw one 4yr old child peeling potatoes - it was a lesson in March for St Patrick's Day. They do tons of cool stuff like that that are rooted in real life. And that's what that part of Montessori is called: "Practical Life"

I guess the danger with Montessori is that an obsessive type child could perseverate and do repetitive stuff but I don't think a good Montessori school would let that go on for long. To me the classrooms are just so cool and stimulating because a kid can do anything like wash windows, hammer small nails into clay, trace letters in sand, tons of geography manipulatives, rocks, minerals they can touch. YOu kind of have to see it in action.  It's true that too many choices could be bad for ADHD types, but at the same time it has that freedom of choice that keeps the love of learning on fire.

I don't know. He did go to the Open House with me and Hubby almost a month ago and loved the Montessori school. I think he would feel at home and he knows the routine. That's so funny what you said about the shirt!

But at the same time, I like the small class size and protectiveness of the Self Contained classroom. I feel like he would be safe there from teachers who don't understand him.

I really appreciate your thoughts regards the social aspect. The most important thing is the Emotional Quotient - I just want him to be happy. I don't care about the academics as long as he is happy. I don't want anyone messing with my kid's head! Peers or teachers. So I am really being careful about this because I want him to have a very positive school experience because he is so enthusiastic about learning, if he has a bad experience it's just going to put out that spark.

I'm really rambling. Thanks so much for your post. It helps tremendously. Everyone's input has been very helpful.