Aspies For Freedom

I found a review about this book, I havent read it myself, I thought the reviews were interesting, anyone else read it?

Book Info
(Jessica Kingsley) Examines a successful marriage from two perspectives: a husband who has been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome and his wife coming to terms with a marriage in which there would never be an intuitive understanding despite her husband's good intentions. Softcover.


About the Author
Gisela and Chris Slater-Walker have been partners for eleven years. Both gained BA (Hons) in Russian Studies from Manchester University. Gisela is an English teacher at Aylesbury High School, and Chris works in the computer industry.


Book Description
Four years ago, Chris Slater-Walker was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome. For him this was an explanation of why he has always regarded himself as 'socially handicapped,' but for his wife Gisela it meant coming to terms with a marriage in which there would never be any intuitive understanding, despite Chris's good intentions. This book is an open and honest account of a long and still unfinished process of learning to live with a disability that some regard as incompatible with marriage. It is a story whose wider implications will be of compelling interest to anyone who has encountered autism spectrum conditions.

Evidently mistreating people is OK if they're disabled?, October 29, 2004

Reviewer:    D. M. Degraf "Autistic Moggy Mania" (Happily Autistic in Northern California) - See all my reviews
  
There are many great books about how to have a happy relationship with somebody on the autism spectrum -- just look up Patrick McCabe, Ashley Stanford, or Linda Holliday Willey to see a few. Sadly, unlike those, "Asperger Marriage" focuses almost entirely on the many ways that the AS guy has it drilled into his head that he is inferior, that he is not worthy enough to have his needs met, and that it does not matter if he is in outright pain as long as the "normal" people are happy.

It is mentioned that he is suicidally depressed, and it's no surprise -- nor is the sad reality that over the years he has been trained to believe he deserves no better. Knowing he has extremely sensitive hearing, his wife yells in his face; aware that he can't handle confrontation or chaos, she throws things. She deliberately sets up situations that are extremely stressful, confusing, or upsetting to him, then once again nastily tells him off and shows her disgust with him for showing even in the slightest of ways that he's bothered by those things. When others in society show their prejudice against the disabled, she makes it very clear that she is ashamed of him rather than of their bigotry! It's quite depressing, and I don't think that you have to be autistic to feel that treating another human being so callously is wrong.

Obviously there are difficulties and pitfalls in any relationship, but throwing things, name-calling, yelling, and vicious put-downs aren't exactly a great example to set for handling them. If anything, I'd say that being the first to write upon a topic of having a certain kind of disabled partner is even better reason to *not* hold verbal and physical violence towards them in high esteem.

Relationships are supposed to be an island of loving acceptance in a cold harsh world, and such an island is what we should all strive to give our partners, especially those that already have to struggle with a handicap in everyday life. It is what my partner has given me, and what I do my absolute best to give him. Unfortunately, "Asperger Marriage" has not been useful in pursuing this goal, as it can only give an idea of how *not* to treat our loved ones, regardless of what their neurology is.

Reviewer:    Parrish S. Knight (Silver Spring, MD United States) - See all my reviews
My partner and I are both on the autistic spectrum, and we've been buying a number of books to help us be aware of the potential pitfalls we may face in our relationship. While "Asperger Marriage" is an interesting account of a couple in which one partner is autistic and the other is not, it should not be thought of as the type of "self-help" book that my girlfriend and I thought it was. Rather, those in such relationships would do better to regard it as an example of possible difficulties they themselves may be facing in their relationships, not as a source of guidance on how to address and overcome those difficulties. Provided the reader enters into the reading with that in mind, "Asperger Marriage" is a worthwhile book for those in similar relationships.

Reviewer:    Linda Newland (Oregon, USA) - See all my reviews
WHY is this book good? Because like the first book dedicated to Asperger Marriage, Maxine Aston's "The Other Half of Asperger Syndrome," Gisela and Chris Slater-Walker have broken the barrier of the ring of "silence" surrounding partners' description of their own unique relationships in a "mixed marriage."

For anyone wishing to understand one couple's take on Asperger marriage, this book is a "must read." It is such a book not for the truth it depicts about AS, but for the process of frank communication and openness much needed in our culture of secrets about life-altering differences and the common phenomenon of late-life adult diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome.

WHY is this book important?

(1) It is important for readers to appreciate that mixed marriages exist, and they not only "survive" but thrive largely due to the open exchange of views between the partners. Because of the prevalence of Asperger Syndrome and a fifty-fifty chance that a primary relative is also somewhere on the autistic spectrum whenever a school child or young adult is "discovered," these "discoveries" come from somewhere. In most cases, AS children come from "mixed marriages."

(2) Within such marriages, especially where there are children, there are discrete, distinct voices waiting to be heard, each voice "speaking" from its owner's unique perspective. Disparaging those voices because they aren't harmonious is not respectful nor is it an intelligent kind of criticism.

On the cover of the book, the marriage band is not "broken." Some persons with AS will say, "My non-spectrum spouse is playing 'victim' and trying to change me or 'fix' me when I don't see a need to be changed. I am NOT broken!" In this book, Gisela and Chris offer a different perspective, revealing their frustration and discomfort as publicly to each other as they do to us, their readers. To bottle up such feelings works havoc on a marriage where both partners are trying to understand one another. For both partners to express themselves so openly is neither an act of abuse or disrespect. It is testimony to their courage and the faith they both share in the strength of their marriage.

Gisela is one of the founding members of ASPIRES. ... ASPIRES is
dedicated to supporting the open discussion of marital and couples' issues of AS couples for the purpose of greater understanding and enrichment of this special relationship.

Linda Newland, Co-Founder and list serv owner, ASPIRES
Roger N. Meyer, Co-Founder of ASPIRES and author, "Asperger Syndrome Employment Workbook"

Reviewer:    William McNeill "WooDMaN" (Michigan United States) - See all my reviews
First comment: Flog the editor. Perhaps the cumbersome and confusing writing-style was intentional; however, I fear that it was merely sloppy.
Second comment: Having AS myself, I was hoping for insights into coping and avoiding pitfalls. Instead, what I got was a chronicle of another couple's fumbles, stumbles and misunderstandings. I suppose the book lived up to its title; it never promised that it contained solutions or recommendations, merely that it was about An Asperger Marriage. I am still surprised by Tony Attwood's endorsement of this book.
Summary: If you want a peak into the lives of one "Asperger Marriage", this book may be for you. If, on the other hand, you're looking for advice and guidance, keep looking. (and let me know when you find it!)

link

Its in the North Staffs Asperger/Autism Association library among hundreds of other books. If I have the time I'll read it soon.

In '03 (nearly two years ago) I sent an email to Gisela Slater-Walker after a visit to her website. This was her reply:

This was my original message:

Another book about Asperger marriage, Loving Mr Spock, advises the NT spouse not to expect much help with housework or DIY. What a convenient carte blanche for me to slack off! :roll:

DIY= Do It Yourself  thats repairing things around the home, and putting shelves up, light fixtures etc.

I find housework a complete nightmare, partly cos I am so disorganized and partly cos I dont like germs :?

I've heard of a book called Autism/Asperger's: solving the relationship puzzle by Steven E Gutstein. Has anyone here read it?

Is the word "sexist" not in your husband's vocabulary?

As in any marriage/relationship, there has to be tradeoffs.  I am so much better at housecleaning than Garnet (NT with some AS traits) and I'm fair to middlin at fixing things.  But I don't hesitate to call someone in to do the job if necessary.  Garnet is really good at finances, computer problems, following instructions to put stuff together and planning long trips.  I guess I don't fit the Stereotypical male, in that I don't hesitate to ask for directions if we're unsure of where we're going.  But Garnet, (bless her OC heart) will research the hell out of maps and websites days before we even start off.

As far as raising our aspling, Amber 12 y/o, we're equal.  I was the stay home dad from 4 months of age to present.  But, as Amber enter's the wonderful age of the teen years and her growing into womanhood.  Dad(willingly) takes the back seat.  Garnet also takes the lead role in making sure that Amber gets the support she needs in school.  And so far, things are going well,  Amber does have mega problems staying organized and focussed on school work.  Fortunately, this year her teachers and support person's at school are more aware of AS and are willing to work with us.

Being an aspie dad to an aspie daughter, I'm getting a thrill in raising a young woman, who'll speak her mind, and go for what SHE wants to be.
It's one of the key points that Garnet and I are UNITED on.

Anyway, sorry to ramble off topic, but, it's time for the asplings and aspie dad's lunch.  A fresh infusion of caffeine is also indicated for yours truly!!

Peace

What, as in A User Guide to Adolescence? Not very relevant to married couples I would have thought, not unless they got married very young.

Saw this magazine article which references Gisela Slater-Walker:

The curious incident of the husband in the night-time
When Elizabeth* met Mark, she was bowed over by his enigmatic charm - but it concealed a secret that would rock their relationship

*NAMES HAVE BEEN CHANGED

I was at work when I was taken ill - shivering, aching, my sinuses throbbing - so I called my husband Mark and asked him to pick me up. He refused (he had a full schedule, he said) so I staggered home and collapsed into bed, where he found me later that evening.

"I think I've got flu," I sniffled.

Mark looked puzzled. "Why are you telling me this?"

"I feel terrible," I said. "Can't you give me a hug?"

His forehead creased with concern. "But I gave you one yesterday," he said.

There was nothing wrong with Mark's memory, that's for sure. He could recall every moment of our first meeting at a conference in Birmingham. And so - for quite different reasons - could I.

As we queued up for coffee that morning, I became aware of a tall, very attractive man (think Colin Firth in Pride and Prejudice) gazing at me intently. Then one of his colleagues started talking and he switched his attention to him, really listening, without interrupting. When at last he spoke, he had the kind of voice I wanted to hear.

Dating in the dark

I changed places in the queue until I was close to him. We spoke, and I discovered he was 43, working in engineering and unattached. He admitted he'd like to be married one day, but he'd been caring for his mother who'd died a few months before. That, and his work, had taken up most of his time. I was a 36-year-old social worker and I'd just come out of a long-term relationship. I was sympathetic and curious. And Mark was very good-looking!

We kept in touch and, though his phone calls were disappointingly short, his emails were immensely entertaining. He'd pass on snippets of useless information he'd gleaned from guide books, which always made me laugh, and sometimes he was almost poetic.

\"His bedside bookcase contained Boy's Own Annuals and My First Book of Rhyming Poems\"

Socially, he was quite awkward, but I thought that was he'd been out of circulation for so long. On our first meal out together, I said, "I think I'd like a drink," but there was no response. It took me months to realise that Mark took everything literally. Unless I said, "Will you get me a drink?" I'd go thirsty.

I shrugged it off. My guess was that Mark hadn't been taught social skills and, privately, I blamed his mother, whose spirit was all too present in the house. Mark still lived in the family home, a time-warp of faded 1950s' furniture - a three-piece suite complete with antimacassars, clocks stopped at different times, wardrobe doors kept together by elastic bands. His bedside bookcase contained Boy's Own Annuals and My First Book of Rhyming Poems. The house was clean, but nothing had changed since his parents had died. I felt needed, and challenged. I bought some paint and got to work.

He was totally honest about my efforts. When I finished, he walked around, pointing out bits I'd missed. He didn't offer encouragement; he either said nothing or gave his considered opinion, just as he did at work. He was good at his job. Contracts have to be precise and Mark was intelligent, reliable and skilled. But outside the office, it was a different story.

At first we had no physical contact - he was just respectful, I thought, though the "respect" continued for a long time. As soon as he'd kissed me, he'd leap away as if he'd been electrocuted. I was hurt and confused; maybe we should split up, I said. "I want to be with you," he protested. "I miss you when we're not together. Life without you is unthinkable." He assured me that he wanted me sexually, though he expressed it oddly, as an "unreasoning necessity".

Love without frills

It seems conceited, but at the time I thought that I could help him. It wasn't easy. The physical relationship was achievable, but not the courtship rituals - there simply weren't any. I was dejected and fascinated by turns, but when he told me he wanted to learn how to love me, my heart melted. I believed that wanting to learn and being able to learn wre the same thing.

We'd married two years after we first met, but our wedding was not a success. Mark had invited a few friends from school - he had none from work - and, after the ceremony, he went straight over to them. I thought it was because he hadn't seen them for a while. In fact, he'd almost forgotten I was there.

Life with Mark was always unsettling. Hints were lost on him, so if we were invited over to friends for a meal, he'd wait to be told to go. Once I realised that, I taught him to stand up when I said, "Is that the time?" If I made a rule, he would follow it, but I was never allowed to change it.

Mark had a lot of rules, too, and sometimes his behaviour bordered on the obsesional. He washed up meticulously: every fork, knife or spoon was separately washed, rinsed, examined, and carefully laid on the draining-board. I bought a dishwasher, which upset him, until he started to stack it. It often took him an hour, but it was his idea of an evening well spent.

I could live with his oddities, but as the lack of communication began to get to me, my self-esteem took a dive. "Say something nice to me!" I pleaded once.

He thought desparately and said, "You make nice dinners."

\"When he told me he wanted to learn how to love me, my heart melted\"

"Not that!" I said. "Something about me."

Puzzled, he thought again. "You've made a nice home for me," he declared.

He liked it when I relayed anecdotes from my daily life, as long as I expected no response. And the unwavering gaze that had first attracted me became a problem. If we were out for a meal, I'd look up and find him staring at me and it felt creepy and threatening.

Lost in the woods

I read endless agony columns searching for advice; all of them said it was vital to express our feelings. But that was the last thing Mark could do, and if I put him on the spot he'd become anxious and angry. I arranged to see a counsellor, but quickly realised she couldn't grasp the enormity of the situation.

"We're just lost in the woods," I told Mark, attempting to be cheerful. "Don't worry, we'll find a way out." He sat for some time, brooding. Finally, he retorted angrily, "I don't believe you!" I was bewildered, but now I know he was thinking: how could we be lost when we were at home? Where were these "woods"? I must be telling lies. I constantly forgot how literal he was.

"You never buy me flowers," I once complained, and he reminded me of the exact time, many months before, when he had. It was exhausting. Getting through the day meant I had to speak a different language and watch every word.

We'd been together five years when I had a call from a friend I'd confided in. "Did you hear a woman called Gisela Slater-Walker on the radio last night?" she asked. "Her husband sounds just like Mark. Apparently he has Asperger's syndrome, a learning disability related to autism." As she described the symptoms, my mind went into overdrive.

Everything that had gone wrong with our relationship, the literalness, the lack of understanding, the silences, the persistent melancholy, made sense. Either Mark had Asperger's syndrome, in which case there was no prospect that he could be any different, or he was self-absorbed and uncaring. I didn't believe he was uncaring - he'd told me, "I don't want to be like this" - but life was becoming impossible. Mark was perpetually moody and he hadn't smiled at me in a year. He had made a supreme effort, but it just wasn't enough.

Moment of truth

I told him as gently as I could about Asperger's syndrome. He thought about it quietly at first, and then he reacted. "Oh," he said, "so you're saying I'm mentally ill? It's all my fault then!" I began to cry, overwhelmed by sadness for both of us, for our lost hopes, for the pressure I'd put him under. He looked at me impassively. I tried to take his hand, but what was comfort for me was stressful for him. Holding hands was not for Mark and had never been, and his effort to change had brought him near to collapse.

Two years later, I stopped crying, and we parted. Mark longed for us to be like "other couples", but I couldn't deliver a relationship by myself. I couldn't constantly weigh my words, monitor my speech, and suppress my own needs. For it to work, I'd have to be Mark's carer, not his wife.

Mark and I are now divorced and have no contact with each other, but I still have an interest in Asperger's. I know that children who have it are taught to say the right things, to help them form relationships as adults. I feel uneasy about this because, if it works, there will be still be nothing behind the words. And then who will pick up the pieces?

Asperger's - or just male?

People with Asperger's (a high-functioning form of autism) don't understand emotions or empathy. Because they can't make sense of other's reactions, they crave security, often taking refuge in ritual and routine, and can be deeply upset by change.

More men than women have Asperger's and some researchers, such as Professor Simon Baron-Cohen of Cambridge University, say that Asperger's syndrome is simply a form of extreme male behaviour. Significant signs are:

* Shrinking away from touch. People with Asperger's dislike, or even fear, physical contact, though not necessarily sex.
* Failure to recognise facial expressions. A smile can be understood, but emotions like sadness or doubt will not.
* Literal thinking and an obsession with honesty.
* Inappropriate eye contact.
* Inability to prioritise - even in an emergency.
* Failure to understand social rules, e.g. paying compliments.

Where to find out more:
An Asperger Marriage by G and C Slater-Walker (Jessica Kingsley, £12.95); Asperger Syndrome and Long-Term Relationships by Ashley Stanford (Jessica Kingsley, £13.95); The National Autistic Society, 0845 070 4004, http://www.nas.org.uk

Eve magazine, June 2006

Your psychiatrist regards you as a kid at 55?!

Aeolienne FKA Sjöjungfru

Some person SENT ME a PM (I didn't send any PM to anyone regarding this thread, except in reply). They wrote something like "I'm answering your questions". I replied that I was unaware of having asked any questions. I did not deny writing any posting at AFF. I did indeed write that posting (but can't seem to locate it in this thread right now). I still think AS/NT marriages are generally a bad idea, but hey, it's a free world. All of the NT/AS marriages that I have seen in real life have ended up in divorce, some as hideous, exploitative messes that have resulted in children being neglected or abandoned, rampant alcoholism etc. It's the kids that suffer most from the stupidity and irresponsibility of their ancestors.

If anyone cares to read by blog piece about the inadvertent but possibly very important study findings of autism researchers Constantino and Todd they will discover that there is some evidence that most people ("normal" people) find marriage partners that are close to their own type in terms of one measure of autistic traits. It appears that the general rule in marriage is segregation according to where people are on the AS to NT continuum. There may be good reasons for this.

Yetti wrote:
"....  I don't hang around such people as you describe.. Those are YOUR friends... Don't make aspies look like the people YOU choose to hang around. ... "

Actually I was referring to the marriages of family members, not friends, as you incorrectly presumed. As they say, you can't choose your family, and you can't choose the stupid relationships that they get into.

As you asked, my husband and I have been married for around 10 years, with kids, high-maintenance, intellectually gifted, somewhat AS kids.

Hey there Yetti. You are back on the forum after some time away. I think I remember you vaguely. Weren't you the forum member who posted some rubbish to my girlfriend Wilky about " Wee Willy Wilky"?

So you are back. Now I have just noticed this thread and seen your earlier proliferation of postings. I notice you have been at turns sarcastic, aggressive and patronising. Fine, whatever.

I am wondering though why if you posted this:

"I am not responding.. you all are far more experienced and knowledgable than I am."

Why are you responding to posts on this thread? Just curious?

I agree completely Yetti.
Honk honk