I've read An Asperger Marriage, Loving Mr Spock and another book about an AS/NT marriage whose name I can't remember.
I found all of these books discouraging, they didn't paint a bright picture of Aspies in marriages. All three books suggested there'd be too many problems for a marriage to work. :roll:
Too many of the "I married an Aspie" books seem very negative to me. They're always by the NT partner saying "I am a Martyr, he is a zombie." That hasn't been my experience in my relationship, and if that's the author's opinion, I don't think there's much to learn from the book.
Oh yea... and if you really are looking for AS marriage books, try to find books about AS women in a marriage... yikes!
Okay... I'm done now.
Yeah. Also, I saw something about this book before ( a few months ago). Now, how hard would it have been for this woman to ASK Mark to get her a drink instead of dropping stupid hints? Also, it was a bit silly of her to expect him to automatically know to buy her flowers.
He might have had a lot of issues with his Aspieness but I think she was immature and manipulative so I don't think I want to read this book.
I would soon feel like slapping this lady but it wouldn't be possible as she is only in the book.
It is normal to grow up thinking about where it all comes from if you are a guy. Having kids has good moments and bad, but a price tag either way. Some women but not all might forget that.
BTW, I always thought that Christians weren't meant to be materialistic, saying that 'God will provide'. Well, if you are chasing someone for looks, money or whatever reason, it seems a little hypocritical that you would say one thing and do the opposite. On the other hand, Pagan friends of mine never seem to have those inner wrestling matches; they neither profess to be one thing or another. Mebbe it all comes down to what you believe, but if you are supposed to hold true Christian beliefs, and some of those beliefs go against worldly possessions, then you might have to contemplate where you are in this great scheme of things. Oh well, your problem. At least I'm not in a position to be religiously guilty over anything.
I think the man that can sustain a family by himself is a dinosaur becoming extinct. In practice, putting that sucker through college is going to require her income too. Last time I dated, I gave up, she did not take advice to get a job, seems content with SSI, has dependency written all over her. And no common interests either, so its no fun.
Oh my, how dreadful - she didn't "want" to get a job! Have you ever considered she might not have been able to get one? It's her life and if she's happy on SSI, it's not as if it's some kind of hanging crime (especially if she had some kind of disability herself).
I have some real concerns about women working to put their guy through college because how often do they end up growing apart because he starts socialising with a more "upmarket" group of people and she gets left behind after a few years. Then he finds a "trophy wife" and all the work the first one did comes to nought.
The same thing you do with a guy in his 30's who's stopped asking questions about life and believe me, there are plenty around the place.
I think employers would tend to steer clear of putting on a person with bipolar because they would worry what would happen if they got either very manic or very depressed. After enough knockbacks, even quite strong people don't feel like looking for paid work any more.
Have you considered that some women are actually happy just pottering around the house and garden and might indeed like to make them nice for their partner and family. I think you fall prey to the idea that people who aren't in the paid workforce are not as worthwhile as others.
It's also a form of inverted sexism ie. no longer do women have the "choice" to have it all - now they are getting obliged to do it all. Even in families with both parents in the paid workforce, the bulk of domestic tasks tends to fall to the woman to do.
one of them gets pregnant, gestates, and gives birth, whereas the other does not.
Not that I care, but where does that fit in with your equal marriage partners theory?
My goodness !! Women want to praised all the time !
OK OK .... you have the ability to have a baby created in your belly !
Good incubator ! LooooooooL !
The books pretty much imply that if you are an NT in a relationship with an aspie, things are always going to be difficult for you and you shouldn't expect to feel loved or appreciated.
What confused me was that one had a foreword by Tony Attwood (who I used to have a lot of respect for) saying that people who have relationships with aspies are his 'heroes'.
I found this quite offensive as it implies that we are so hard to put up with and to love that someone choosing to tolerate act is an act of heroism and self sacrifice. This is quite insulting really.
This exactly what I have disliked about virtually everything I've read on NT/Aspie relationships. It's like they're saying, "If you (an NT) choose to be in a relationship with an Aspie, you will get no emotional rewards and will have to take care of all your own emotional needs because you will get nothing from the Aspie." That has not been my experience with my Aspie partner Erich, nor with my Aspie friends, nor with my Aspie brother.
When the NT writer goes on and on about how difficult and unrewarding the relationship is, I just think, "well, then, Miss Martyr, get out of the relationship and let him be with someone who finds him loving and lovable and a source of joy and happiness."
Max, how much have you read about NT-AS relationships? It would seem to me that we got a lot of biased NTs writing books, right?
I have not seen an Aspie/NT relationship book written by an Aspie. The premise seems, generally, that NT's write books for NT's saying "here is how to handle all the dreadful problems." I guess if that's where the NT partner is and that's how he/she sees things, the book may be all fabulous. Certainly many people think so.
That's not to say I found nothing helpful in any of them. Ashley Stanford's book was probably better than the others. Maybe the books are just not reflective of the particular relationship between me and Erich -- it's never been a problematic relationship -- and I'm not typically "NT" -- I certainly wasn't in the "Asperger's? What's Asperger's?" category, having been in two previous Aspie relationships, working with Aspie students, and growing up with an Aspie little brother. The books seem geared to couples who are farther apart than Erich and I.
What I found helpful in Stanford's book was that it pointed out certain things I could ask Erich about and we could talk about our own experience together. We had some good talks about face-blindness and how Erich analyzes body language, and about how we experienced and dealt with bullying in our childhoods.
I think there's probably plenty of AS/NT relationships that are fairly happy - it's just that the happy stories don't generate enough material for a book.
And people in successful marriages don't go to the bookstore and say, "Please, do have anything that can help me with my marriage? I'm afraid we've become terribly happy."
But I would really love to read books on an AS/NT relationship from the AS perspective. It's one of the main things I come to AFF for.
But still, my NT hubby and I have been in some rather difficult relationship problems before- a little closer to the big "d" than I'd like to admit. It would have been nice if there had been something to help us through that situation. Though, knowledge of AS would have been a big help.
My marriage hasn't been wonderful. We worked against each other for a very long time. It would have been helpful if there had been some way around that whole process. For us it meant that during an argument I needed extra space and extra time, if things got too hot I had to leave immediately so I didn't loose it. For him it meant understanding that if I leave its not because I am physically leaving him, but that I need to brew my thoughts. That was one of our biggest hurdles actually, he thought we should just argue until it was resolved... I couldn't (and still can't) handle that. It stresses me out more than the actual thing we're fighting about.
This is VERY much like my relationship with my previous Aspie boyfriend, Dan. Let me ask: did you and your husband start out with both understanding the whole Aspie?NT thing? Were you diagnosed when you were first married?
Dan and I didn't realize he was Aspie (he was diagnosed years later), and a lot of the conflict could have been avoided, handled, or worked through if we had understood the essential differences between us. I had NT expectations and assumptions about him that were inappropriate. He didn't know how to engage emotionally. Neither of us understood the nature of the mis-match.
With me and Erich, we've understood from the start that our different circuitries require particular ways of communicating and working together and the relationship has been much smoother. We don't experience it as a mismatch. I expect Erich to be like Erich and he expects me to be like me.
So am I right that SarahJoke ands I are both agreeing with what Daisy may said?
"If we had known about AS before it might have been easier, but I too would like some guidance on how to resolve things without hurting each other."
I am really convinced of this, both from my own experience and what I've learned from people here.
... I didn't discover what AS was, or that I had it, until this February. We've been married for six years!
Yes! That's what I mean. That's how it was for me and Dan -- but we didn't make it to that point of realizing that there was an AS/NT difference to work with. Only after we broke up did we (separately) come to that realization.
We still have problems, finding the DSM-IV doesn't mean the problems go away! But we can at least figure out the base problem and build from there.
Yes. But the very important thing that is, I believe, crucial is that the "base problem" is not your Asperger's -- it is the mismatch. There has to be a mutual commitment to the principle that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being aspie and absolutely nothing wrong with being NT. All of the problems lie in the difference, not in either individual.
That's what bothers me about most of the books: the Aspie partner is the Designated Problem. And if a couple is operating on that model, that just increases the discontent. The "base problem" isn't that one partner (the NT) thinks wrong and the other partner thinks 'wrong" -- it's just that they think differently. And that that difference creates many wonderful things, but it also creates some real challenges.
I think sometimes he wrongly bears the brunt of our relationship. It is him that has to bend for me on these particular problems.
That's how most of the books seem to look at it, but my objection is that this point of view leads to the whole "The Aspie is the Problem" belief. And it over-focuses on just one aspect of the relationship (flexibility) in which the aspie partner maybe does have more of a proiblem. But that's not a fair way to look at how BOTH partners contribute to the marriage.
(disclaimer: I really don't want to sound like I'm saying "I am 150 years old and let me tell you about my perfect AS/NT relationship" because -- well, uh -- we've already got someone grinding away at that agenda.... 
)
BUT... 
I am 147 years old and I did learn some things from a failed AS/NT relationship and a pretty happy one.
I think of our relationship as a mutually created, jointly maintained big Ol' Pot of LUUUUV... and there are things Erich can add to the stew and things I can add.
Yes, I probably bend more than Erich does. BUT flexibility comes a little easier to me, so when the relationship needs it, I'm probably more likely to provide it. There are other virtues Erich has in greater abundance than I do, and he's more likely to provide more of those things for the relationship. We try not to focus on "Poor Erich has to do more of the organizing" and "Poor Max has to be more flexible." It's "Are we getting the organization we need? (Yes, thank you Erich) "Are we getting the flexibility that helps us adapt to each other? (Yes, thank you, Max)
Max, maybe you should be the one to write the book.
Ah... here's where we look at AS's ugly step-cousin ADHD.
You know, I have twice had book offers (I didn't ask them, they asked me) one based on my work on diversity in education and one for a collection of semi-fictional stories on growing up "gay, gifted and not-quite-white" in the bad old days of Oklahoma and Texas in the 50's - 70's.
I couldn't finish either one of them. ADHD. (sigh... 
)
A good partnership will draw on each person's strengths and there won't be this expectation that they both have to be exactly the same as each other.
Hear! Hear!
In a great many mixed relationships -- be in a difference in neurostatus or race or whatever -- the "correct" member of the couple takes the attitude "It's okay with me if you're (black, Aspie, whatever) as long as I'm not expected to understand it and you act like ME all the time." The black paertner must be white, the Aspie partner must be NT.
Well, if that's what you want, go marry a white person! go marry an NT! If you don't love the full human being, do them a favor and go away.