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NO... its a book about children with autism and it outlines some of the basic traits of autism...... he wanted me to match the traits.. he knows the author personally.  The books is basically Asperger traits....  Struggles I had growing up.... I had 95% of them.. that is about as close as one could get and I naturally overcame them alone and shot from the hip as my Psychiatrist stated.. Some of us had the ability to do it ALONE.  No doctors, no parents who understood , in fact very uneducated parents, no counselors,no internet support groups...  I read so many others and stayed up till 2 am each night reading all I could the last 2-3 months.  I have to catch up with lost time, don't you know? Wink


Aeolienne Wrote:

Yetti Wrote:

Noetic Wrote:

Aeolienne Wrote:
I've heard of a book called Autism/Asperger's: solving the relationship puzzle by Steven E Gutstein. Has anyone here read it?

That's more for parents than for partners, it's more about explaining friendships etc. to kids than about adult relationships.

Yes I read it.. my psychiatrist had me read it.. I read just about everything on the subject, since I have been diagnosed 2 months ago at the age of 55


Your psychiatrist regards you as a kid at 55?!

Aeolienne FKA Sjöjungfru

GuessWho Wrote:
Hello, Yetti.  I am age 37, never married, no kids.  Don't hold your breath waiting for me to get married.  

One way to learn patience is to simply have no alternative.


Its a choice.. so why are you on the marriage board giving advice if you have no intentions of getting married ?  <Yetti asks ;0)

Guess who... Before you start making statements about women, married women, stay at home parents ; it would be wise to learn about them and not get your info from "Leave It To Beaver". There are some Hot Mama's out there who are not only smart as a whip, but MILF's as my daughter's generation would call them.

Just thought I would drop in on this Aspie "Haper Valley PTA" Meeting! Smile

Yetti Wrote:

GuessWho Wrote:
Hello, Yetti.  I am age 37, never married, no kids.  Don't hold your breath waiting for me to get married.  

One way to learn patience is to simply have no alternative.


Its a choice.. so why are you on the marriage board giving advice if you have no intentions of getting married ?  <Yetti asks ;0)

Guess who... Before you start making statements about women, married women, stay at home parents ; it would be wise to learn about them and not get your info from "Leave It To Beaver". There are some Hot Mama's out there who are not only smart as a whip, but MILF's as my daughter's generation would call them.

Just thought I would drop in on this Aspie "Haper Valley PTA" Meeting! Smile


PS: Why would I even care if you got married? None of My Beez Wax!~ But I do wonder why you consider yourself an expert on aspie women  much less stay at home parents (male and Female) and trust me some of those stay at home Dads are HUNKS!

Yetti Wrote:

Lili Marlene Wrote:
I will never understand why any NT person and any AS person would want to marry. I could understand such a couple having a fling, just for curiosity's sake, but marrying? You can't be truly in love if you don't truly understand the other person, and ....

I think it's a sad thing that books like these have a market.


My NT Husband and I (aspie) have been married 33 yrs and are still madly in love. He is my most perfect person!  We don't expect you to understand it!  We are not married to you.


Guesss What I get a private email from Lili Marlene who claimes never to have written the above !   Look folks.. start taking responsibility for your posts and emails.  Lili.. Look Above.. who wrote that on your s/n?   Casper the Friendly Ghost?   In all honesty , I am out of here.  I think some need to get into reality before they start opining about marriage when A( they are NOT married B) Claim they do not write things like the above with Lili Marlene.. I have her email as proof.. If you write it take responsibilty for your statemetns..

No wonder there are relationship problems.. Don't blame the married people or stay at home people. Take responsiblity for your own actions and don't bother society with all this  spouting that goes to nowhere... I take it you are all over 18.

Lili Marlene Wrote:
I will never understand why any NT person and any AS person would want to marry. I could understand such a couple having a fling, just for curiosity's sake, but marrying? You can't be truly in love if you don't truly understand the other person, and ....

I think it's a sad thing that books like these have a market.


Lili you just sent me a private email stating you never wrote this post?  Did you get amnesia all of a sudden, dear?

energeia Wrote:
Yetti, please don't leave.  It's nice to have at least a few older aspies on this site.


It seems I am the only Older aspie at my real life support group and here.....  Its like the elephant world.. all the old elephants have been hunted down and murdered and no one is left to give help and advice to the younger ones to make it through life like we did.

I want to help, because I made it through life not knowing i had aspergers... My knowledge is time tested and successful... My life shows this... I see all the young ones and their parents are often clueless to what to do .... Perhaps if you find us oldies and talk with us... I have familly members I know who have aspergers and do not know it and many are on their death beds.. Imagine going through life never knowing one had aspergers...


I and several others seem to have made the breakthrough and would love to help.. but we don't need things like Lilli marlenes posts or posts of people who are clueless about subjects they no little or nothing of.

Ask away Grasshopper! Smile

jewelie Wrote:
Yes, like me, discovered I'm an Aspie at age 43, and my mom and dad are in their eighties, not knowing.  My mother-in-law died not knowing her son and granddaughter are Aspies.

Oddly enough, my real life Aspie group is mostly older Aspies, which is great for me, but we're a small group and that ratio could change as we grow.

I'm going to start an older than average Aspie thread and see if we can identify each other.

I should mention that I almost always like Lili's posts and think this was just an unfortunate abberation, hopefully.



yes the older ones are different.. lots of experience under our belts.. .As for Lilli.. .I have the email.... she refutes making the post...

Lili Marlene Wrote:
Some person SENT ME a PM (I didn't send any PM to anyone regarding this thread, except in reply). They wrote something like "I'm answering your questions". I replied that I was unaware of having asked any questions. I did not deny writing any posting at AFF. I did indeed write that posting (but can't seem to locate it in this thread right now). I still think AS/NT marriages are generally a bad idea, but hey, it's a free world. All of the NT/AS marriages that I have seen in real life have ended up in divorce, some as hideous, exploitative messes that have resulted in children being neglected or abandoned, rampant alcoholism etc. It's the kids that suffer most from the stupidity and irresponsibility of their ancestors.

If anyone cares to read by blog piece about the inadvertent but possibly very important study findings of autism researchers Constantino and Todd they will discover that there is some evidence that most people ("normal" people) find marriage partners that are close to their own type in terms of one measure of autistic traits. It appears that the general rule in marriage is segregation according to where people are on the AS to NT continuum. There may be good reasons for this.


Not SOME person , Lilli.. Me!
I have your pm...  If you are going to post such nonsense then don't disacknowledge making it.. .it was made not that long ago... .
  I don't hang around such people as you describe.. Those are YOUR friends... Don't make aspies look like the people YOU choose to hang around. ...

Perhaps you are transporting the ill personalites of your friends onto those of us who are Aspie/NT marriages.. I know a lot of successful Aspie /NT marriages but they are people of character... Don't confuse character wtih Apsieism or NT ism...  I simply don't hang around people who do not have the where with all to keep their marriages... as a rule.. I know some failed marriages but Most are not aspie.  

I guess that study is WRONG!    My husband said he views my apsie ism just as one facet of my personality.. He said my other facets of my personality far overweigh any challenges of my aspie ness.... I have met several aspies at my real life support group who have been married a while to NTs.

BTW are you married?   HOw can you speak of my marriage?  I doubt my husband would find your attitude attractive in any sense of the word, NT or Aspie.. In fact , he and chuckled over your outlandish statements...  Yes children do suffer from irresponsible parents... We are very family oriented. SO are Most the NT/ASpie long term marriages I know of.

I think because so many of us older adults have not been diagnosed that these studies are only finding the whackos and not the succesful ones because we are Happy and don't seek out psychiatrists to determine if we are aspie or not... Until two months ago, I thought I was NT...Lo and Behold , I am a major High Functioning austistic person.  Go Figure... Many are like this... we Lived life thinking we were quirky NTs but in reality we area Aspies... Hence not many older women have been diagnosed but we are coming out of the closet so to speak.. Often after our children are grown and we have time to reexplore ourselves and with new information on the subject whichwas not there decades ago...

We have, for the most part, been very pleased with our lives, our marriages , just the unsettling unanswered questions of our quirkiness which has plagued us..

Please do not speak for my marriage or other happily married NT/Aspie marriage... That is extremelypresumptuous or perhaps an excuse  for your friends other bad attributes which lead to a divorce.

I told my husband about your post and he feels you know very little about  the subject of NT/Aspie marriages. I agree.

This year will be 33 yrs for us and we look for to decades more. My husband is extremely NT sociable.. People flock to him... in fact women often make passes at him especially when he was younger.. but you know what.. .He always came home to the one he loved. Smile
I never placed a lock on the door of our marriage.. He could leave whenever he wanted ,but chose not to do so... I don't stay in a relationship where I am not loved or not wanted.

Marriage is a two way street and if the parties are not responsible enough to make the right decisions or work towards understanding and love , that is their own personality flaw, not an aspie/NT thing.  I read an article where they stated Aspies married to NTs usually have very loving , understanding, and compassionate partners.. .My husband is such... I was Picky with whom I married... I rather be single than enter a bad marriage...

What I take offense is someone pretending to know my marriage as an Aspie to an NT, and making such obsurd remakes as if you have some real  insight.... what misinformation to the people on this board who perhaps have a relationship which may lead to marriage and it would be a good one... What a guilt trip to place on Aspies...

I and many others are living proof of happy mixed marriages... Perhaps you should ask us how we do it instead of hanging around people who are druggies. We don't do such abuse of drugs in our home.  

Our daughter is soon to be married.. she is an NT carrying Aspie Genes. and I will be there for my grandchildren aspie or NT.  At least they will have a grandmother and grandfather who are wise on such things to help them.

I can't wait till more Aspies my age come out.... its a matter of finding them.

Thank God I came to this thread.. we have an unmarried guy telling people that At home parents are basically morons... and someone who is telling people that NT and Aspies do not mix ROFLMAO, yet is not in such a successful marriage...  I think there has to be a voice of reason in this place.  Be careful what you wish for , you  just may get it.. I guess God had me for a purpose to come here.

Goodness the stuff I am reading here!

Why doesn't anyone ask me what my husband and I did to have such a very happy marriage for so long? And why we love each other to death to this day?  I have a friend on another board who is in an aspie/nt marriage for over 30 yrs.. I should bring her here too.. She has 5 children!

I hear these same things with NT/NT marriages who claim no one can have long marriages anymore !  What a crock and excuse for others inability to make good decisions and be responsible adults and citizens and parents.

Lili Marlene Wrote:
Some person SENT ME a PM (I didn't send any PM to anyone regarding this thread, except in reply). They wrote something like "I'm answering your questions". I replied that I was unaware of having asked any questions. I did not deny writing any posting at AFF. I did indeed write that posting (but can't seem to locate it in this thread right now). I still think AS/NT marriages are generally a bad idea, but hey, it's a free world. All of the NT/AS marriages that I have seen in real life have ended up in divorce, some as hideous, exploitative messes that have resulted in children being neglected or abandoned, rampant alcoholism etc. It's the kids that suffer most from the stupidity and irresponsibility of their ancestors.

If anyone cares to read by blog piece about the inadvertent but possibly very important study findings of autism researchers Constantino and Todd they will discover that there is some evidence that most people ("normal" people) find marriage partners that are close to their own type in terms of one measure of autistic traits. It appears that the general rule in marriage is segregation according to where people are on the AS to NT continuum. There may be good reasons for this.

Amy Thank you for these book titles... I am an Aspie and my husband is an NT and we have been together 33 yrs as of this year... Smile In marriage and a wonderful 25 yr old NT child we produced...  My husband stated when I told him about this thread that my aspie traits are one of many facets of my personality... not just the only trait... I was very picky with whom I chose to marry.. I think many people rush into marriages without thinking.


Amy Wrote:
I found a review about this book, I havent read it myself, I thought the reviews were interesting, anyone else read it?

Book Info
(Jessica Kingsley) Examines a successful marriage from two perspectives: a husband who has been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome and his wife coming to terms with a marriage in which there would never be an intuitive understanding despite her husband's good intentions. Softcover.


About the Author
Gisela and Chris Slater-Walker have been partners for eleven years. Both gained BA (Hons) in Russian Studies from Manchester University. Gisela is an English teacher at Aylesbury High School, and Chris works in the computer industry.


Book Description
Four years ago, Chris Slater-Walker was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome. For him this was an explanation of why he has always regarded himself as 'socially handicapped,' but for his wife Gisela it meant coming to terms with a marriage in which there would never be any intuitive understanding, despite Chris's good intentions. This book is an open and honest account of a long and still unfinished process of learning to live with a disability that some regard as incompatible with marriage. It is a story whose wider implications will be of compelling interest to anyone who has encountered autism spectrum conditions.

Evidently mistreating people is OK if they're disabled?, October 29, 2004

Reviewer:    D. M. Degraf "Autistic Moggy Mania" (Happily Autistic in Northern California) - See all my reviews
  
There are many great books about how to have a happy relationship with somebody on the autism spectrum -- just look up Patrick McCabe, Ashley Stanford, or Linda Holliday Willey to see a few. Sadly, unlike those, "Asperger Marriage" focuses almost entirely on the many ways that the AS guy has it drilled into his head that he is inferior, that he is not worthy enough to have his needs met, and that it does not matter if he is in outright pain as long as the "normal" people are happy.

It is mentioned that he is suicidally depressed, and it's no surprise -- nor is the sad reality that over the years he has been trained to believe he deserves no better. Knowing he has extremely sensitive hearing, his wife yells in his face; aware that he can't handle confrontation or chaos, she throws things. She deliberately sets up situations that are extremely stressful, confusing, or upsetting to him, then once again nastily tells him off and shows her disgust with him for showing even in the slightest of ways that he's bothered by those things. When others in society show their prejudice against the disabled, she makes it very clear that she is ashamed of him rather than of their bigotry! It's quite depressing, and I don't think that you have to be autistic to feel that treating another human being so callously is wrong.

Obviously there are difficulties and pitfalls in any relationship, but throwing things, name-calling, yelling, and vicious put-downs aren't exactly a great example to set for handling them. If anything, I'd say that being the first to write upon a topic of having a certain kind of disabled partner is even better reason to *not* hold verbal and physical violence towards them in high esteem.

Relationships are supposed to be an island of loving acceptance in a cold harsh world, and such an island is what we should all strive to give our partners, especially those that already have to struggle with a handicap in everyday life. It is what my partner has given me, and what I do my absolute best to give him. Unfortunately, "Asperger Marriage" has not been useful in pursuing this goal, as it can only give an idea of how *not* to treat our loved ones, regardless of what their neurology is.

Reviewer:    Parrish S. Knight (Silver Spring, MD United States) - See all my reviews
My partner and I are both on the autistic spectrum, and we've been buying a number of books to help us be aware of the potential pitfalls we may face in our relationship. While "Asperger Marriage" is an interesting account of a couple in which one partner is autistic and the other is not, it should not be thought of as the type of "self-help" book that my girlfriend and I thought it was. Rather, those in such relationships would do better to regard it as an example of possible difficulties they themselves may be facing in their relationships, not as a source of guidance on how to address and overcome those difficulties. Provided the reader enters into the reading with that in mind, "Asperger Marriage" is a worthwhile book for those in similar relationships.

Reviewer:    Linda Newland (Oregon, USA) - See all my reviews
WHY is this book good? Because like the first book dedicated to Asperger Marriage, Maxine Aston's "The Other Half of Asperger Syndrome," Gisela and Chris Slater-Walker have broken the barrier of the ring of "silence" surrounding partners' description of their own unique relationships in a "mixed marriage."

For anyone wishing to understand one couple's take on Asperger marriage, this book is a "must read." It is such a book not for the truth it depicts about AS, but for the process of frank communication and openness much needed in our culture of secrets about life-altering differences and the common phenomenon of late-life adult diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome.

WHY is this book important?

(1) It is important for readers to appreciate that mixed marriages exist, and they not only "survive" but thrive largely due to the open exchange of views between the partners. Because of the prevalence of Asperger Syndrome and a fifty-fifty chance that a primary relative is also somewhere on the autistic spectrum whenever a school child or young adult is "discovered," these "discoveries" come from somewhere. In most cases, AS children come from "mixed marriages."

(2) Within such marriages, especially where there are children, there are discrete, distinct voices waiting to be heard, each voice "speaking" from its owner's unique perspective. Disparaging those voices because they aren't harmonious is not respectful nor is it an intelligent kind of criticism.

On the cover of the book, the marriage band is not "broken." Some persons with AS will say, "My non-spectrum spouse is playing 'victim' and trying to change me or 'fix' me when I don't see a need to be changed. I am NOT broken!" In this book, Gisela and Chris offer a different perspective, revealing their frustration and discomfort as publicly to each other as they do to us, their readers. To bottle up such feelings works havoc on a marriage where both partners are trying to understand one another. For both partners to express themselves so openly is neither an act of abuse or disrespect. It is testimony to their courage and the faith they both share in the strength of their marriage.

Gisela is one of the founding members of ASPIRES. ... ASPIRES is
dedicated to supporting the open discussion of marital and couples' issues of AS couples for the purpose of greater understanding and enrichment of this special relationship.

Linda Newland, Co-Founder and list serv owner, ASPIRES
Roger N. Meyer, Co-Founder of ASPIRES and author, "Asperger Syndrome Employment Workbook"

Reviewer:    William McNeill "WooDMaN" (Michigan United States) - See all my reviews
First comment: Flog the editor. Perhaps the cumbersome and confusing writing-style was intentional; however, I fear that it was merely sloppy.
Second comment: Having AS myself, I was hoping for insights into coping and avoiding pitfalls. Instead, what I got was a chronicle of another couple's fumbles, stumbles and misunderstandings. I suppose the book lived up to its title; it never promised that it contained solutions or recommendations, merely that it was about An Asperger Marriage. I am still surprised by Tony Attwood's endorsement of this book.
Summary: If you want a peak into the lives of one "Asperger Marriage", this book may be for you. If, on the other hand, you're looking for advice and guidance, keep looking. (and let me know when you find it!)

link

I totally disagree. my mother I know to have aspie traits... we cannot test her now, as she is 85 with alzheimers but she has the classic traits... it is from her family side we have aspergers.. She was married to my wonderful NT father for 40 yrs.till he passed away.. she remarried 5 yrs later and my step dad is by her side every morning they have been married over 25yrs... My cousin who I know to have aspie traits is married to an NT.. they have been married 20 yrs now... the list goes on.... We choose who we associate even family.. My brother is probably aspie and has one failed marriage after another... miserable and an alcoholic.. We do not associate with him.. He is 11 yrs older than I am.. my other aspie cousin has OCD but refuses medication nor does CBT , I told him not to call until he gets on meds... its his choice....

Either people take control of the situations they are born into or they don't.. its a choice.

As for your 10 yr marriage... don't override those of us who have been married for 33 yrs and beyond to NTs and we are aspies...  We have experience over you.. My daughter is 25, honors grad, with master Economist and doing quite well on Wall Street.  Your 10 yrs is just a sneeze in time...

I choose who I associate with , family or not.  So do not tell those of us with NT/Aspie marriages you know all about them...  You obviously do not!  As for your high maintenance.. don't even go there... we are far from even worrying about money.

BTW: I have kept my maiden name for all these decades , never changed it... It is amazing though I have found so many people who want to see happy marriages fail when it does not fit their profile of what they are... Guess what ... we ran off all our critics off their feet and many of them are divorced , both NTs.   Old saying  "He who laughs last , laughs best".  We found it amazing how people would criticize our marriage especially my keeping my last name... A name does NOT a marriage make.... an Aspie/aspie relationship does NOT a marriage make...it takes far more than that... that is all surface.


Lili Marlene Wrote:
Yetti wrote:
"....  I don't hang around such people as you describe.. Those are YOUR friends... Don't make aspies look like the people YOU choose to hang around. ... "

Actually I was referring to the marriages of family members, not friends, as you incorrectly presumed. As they say, you can't choose your family, and you can't choose the stupid relationships that they get into.

As you asked, my husband and I have been married for around 10 years, with kids, high-maintenance, intellectually gifted, somewhat AS kids.

I love it when people assume they know what it takes to have a long term marriage... Ten years is a drop in the bucket... wait to 20, then 30, We are looking forward to 35 and our daughter wants to have a anniversary party for us... in two years...   I, for one listen to ,people who have been married 55 yrs +, They are my roles models.. I don't diss their marriages.. and my mother was one of those..  and Aspie married to two NT men for a total of 65 YRS!!!!!!!!!! Successfully... My father died hence she remarried 5 yrs later.   I will say NT and Aspie marriages do very well..  It all depends on the maturity of the people when they enter marriage. NT or Aspie.

Beware of people who are married a short time or not married telling people how to have long term marriages... I would carefully scrutinize their advice. I have seen stuff like this before... esp on my keeping my last name ... It never fails and it never ends....always a new kid on the block.
Then wait for my book.... It is not like that.  We have challenges but a very happy life. I have had a very happy successful life.. it is and can be done.  

Max the Bear Wrote:

aliengirl Wrote:

The books pretty much imply that if you are an NT in a relationship with an aspie, things are always going to be difficult for you and you shouldn't expect to feel loved or appreciated.

What confused me was that one had a foreword by Tony Attwood (who I used to have a lot of respect for) saying that people who have relationships with aspies are his 'heroes'.

I found this quite offensive as it implies that we are so hard to put up with and to love that someone choosing to tolerate act is an act of heroism and self sacrifice. This is quite insulting really.


This exactly what I have disliked about virtually everything I've read on NT/Aspie relationships. It's like they're saying, "If you (an NT) choose to be in a relationship with an Aspie, you will get no emotional rewards and will have to take care of all your own emotional needs because you will get nothing from the Aspie." That has not been my experience with my Aspie partner Erich, nor with my Aspie friends, nor with my Aspie brother.

When the NT writer goes on and on about how difficult and unrewarding the relationship is, I just think, "well, then, Miss Martyr, get out of the relationship and let him be with someone who finds him loving and lovable and a source of joy and happiness."

Then wait for my book.... It is not like that.  We have challenges but a very happy life. I have had a very happy successful life.. it is and can be done.  

Max the Bear Wrote:

aliengirl Wrote:

The books pretty much imply that if you are an NT in a relationship with an aspie, things are always going to be difficult for you and you shouldn't expect to feel loved or appreciated.

What confused me was that one had a foreword by Tony Attwood (who I used to have a lot of respect for) saying that people who have relationships with aspies are his 'heroes'.

I found this quite offensive as it implies that we are so hard to put up with and to love that someone choosing to tolerate act is an act of heroism and self sacrifice. This is quite insulting really.


This exactly what I have disliked about virtually everything I've read on NT/Aspie relationships. It's like they're saying, "If you (an NT) choose to be in a relationship with an Aspie, you will get no emotional rewards and will have to take care of all your own emotional needs because you will get nothing from the Aspie." That has not been my experience with my Aspie partner Erich, nor with my Aspie friends, nor with my Aspie brother.

When the NT writer goes on and on about how difficult and unrewarding the relationship is, I just think, "well, then, Miss Martyr, get out of the relationship and let him be with someone who finds him loving and lovable and a source of joy and happiness."

Addendum.. My husband and daughter state my other qualities far out way any negativity that aspergers may have had and they hate to see me suffer.  You know our home is wonderful.... far better than most NT/NT marriages.  My question is What's the beef? I see people who beat their spouses,, use them, etc.. and they are NTs....  My life overall is so wonderful beyond belief.. even with my aspie melt downs..3 in my life... I over came them and back on the road to living.... I do think my Hypo manic has a lot to do with my outlook on life.... I love being in a high all the time Smile Glad I don't have the bi polar lows.... woah.. My mom had those.... but even with bi polar my mom and dad loved each other to the end.  The twinkle in their eyes were always there... and my husbands friends say we glow when we are together.  How better can that be?

Yetti Wrote:
Then wait for my book.... It is not like that.  We have challenges but a very happy life. I have had a very happy successful life.. it is and can be done.  

Max the Bear Wrote:

aliengirl Wrote:

The books pretty much imply that if you are an NT in a relationship with an aspie, things are always going to be difficult for you and you shouldn't expect to feel loved or appreciated.

What confused me was that one had a foreword by Tony Attwood (who I used to have a lot of respect for) saying that people who have relationships with aspies are his 'heroes'.

I found this quite offensive as it implies that we are so hard to put up with and to love that someone choosing to tolerate act is an act of heroism and self sacrifice. This is quite insulting really.


This exactly what I have disliked about virtually everything I've read on NT/Aspie relationships. It's like they're saying, "If you (an NT) choose to be in a relationship with an Aspie, you will get no emotional rewards and will have to take care of all your own emotional needs because you will get nothing from the Aspie." That has not been my experience with my Aspie partner Erich, nor with my Aspie friends, nor with my Aspie brother.

When the NT writer goes on and on about how difficult and unrewarding the relationship is, I just think, "well, then, Miss Martyr, get out of the relationship and let him be with someone who finds him loving and lovable and a source of joy and happiness."

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