Aspies For Freedom

Not bashing.

In further support of the cousins hypothesis, my first girlfriend shortly after 9/11 told me in no uncertain terms I would get a girlfriend.

She's a "cousin", bipolar.  Seems like she appreciates me at full face value.

My most recent girlfriend, even as a simple friend now, she keeps calling for movies out, 20 miles south of where I live.  Another bipolar "cousin".

Takes one to know one?  Or love one?

Maybe.

Comment from an outside observer here--Yetti, I think you're overreacting to what Marieke has written. And you do come off as kind of arrogant.  Just my opinion.

Anyways, I'm amazed at anyone who is able to remain married successfully and happily.  More power to you!

I've never been married and never wanted to be. I know that I'm too self-centered to do it well.

Yetti--I should add-- a lot of my friends are arrogant.  I rather like you.  It sounds like you're on an interesting retrospective journey.

By which I didn't mean to encourage you to argue against AS/NT relationships... just meant to say that that would be a more logical angle than the one you've been using.

I'm kinda wondering btw whether the Aspies that strongly argue against AS/NT relationships do so to "save face"... as an excuse as to why they aren't in a (happy) long term relationship themselves. Not enough Aspies around to date, and dating NTs won't work out anyway so you're doomed to being single. I think I'm on to something...

You know, I think that falls more in the category of "childish" than "childlike".

Just curious... do you talk like this to your husband too? (Of course, you're not responding anymore, so this is a pointless question.)

I found a review about this book, I havent read it myself, I thought the reviews were interesting, anyone else read it?

Book Info
(Jessica Kingsley) Examines a successful marriage from two perspectives: a husband who has been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome and his wife coming to terms with a marriage in which there would never be an intuitive understanding despite her husband's good intentions. Softcover.


About the Author
Gisela and Chris Slater-Walker have been partners for eleven years. Both gained BA (Hons) in Russian Studies from Manchester University. Gisela is an English teacher at Aylesbury High School, and Chris works in the computer industry.


Book Description
Four years ago, Chris Slater-Walker was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome. For him this was an explanation of why he has always regarded himself as 'socially handicapped,' but for his wife Gisela it meant coming to terms with a marriage in which there would never be any intuitive understanding, despite Chris's good intentions. This book is an open and honest account of a long and still unfinished process of learning to live with a disability that some regard as incompatible with marriage. It is a story whose wider implications will be of compelling interest to anyone who has encountered autism spectrum conditions.

Evidently mistreating people is OK if they're disabled?, October 29, 2004

Reviewer:    D. M. Degraf "Autistic Moggy Mania" (Happily Autistic in Northern California) - See all my reviews
  
There are many great books about how to have a happy relationship with somebody on the autism spectrum -- just look up Patrick McCabe, Ashley Stanford, or Linda Holliday Willey to see a few. Sadly, unlike those, "Asperger Marriage" focuses almost entirely on the many ways that the AS guy has it drilled into his head that he is inferior, that he is not worthy enough to have his needs met, and that it does not matter if he is in outright pain as long as the "normal" people are happy.

It is mentioned that he is suicidally depressed, and it's no surprise -- nor is the sad reality that over the years he has been trained to believe he deserves no better. Knowing he has extremely sensitive hearing, his wife yells in his face; aware that he can't handle confrontation or chaos, she throws things. She deliberately sets up situations that are extremely stressful, confusing, or upsetting to him, then once again nastily tells him off and shows her disgust with him for showing even in the slightest of ways that he's bothered by those things. When others in society show their prejudice against the disabled, she makes it very clear that she is ashamed of him rather than of their bigotry! It's quite depressing, and I don't think that you have to be autistic to feel that treating another human being so callously is wrong.

Obviously there are difficulties and pitfalls in any relationship, but throwing things, name-calling, yelling, and vicious put-downs aren't exactly a great example to set for handling them. If anything, I'd say that being the first to write upon a topic of having a certain kind of disabled partner is even better reason to *not* hold verbal and physical violence towards them in high esteem.

Relationships are supposed to be an island of loving acceptance in a cold harsh world, and such an island is what we should all strive to give our partners, especially those that already have to struggle with a handicap in everyday life. It is what my partner has given me, and what I do my absolute best to give him. Unfortunately, "Asperger Marriage" has not been useful in pursuing this goal, as it can only give an idea of how *not* to treat our loved ones, regardless of what their neurology is.

Reviewer:    Parrish S. Knight (Silver Spring, MD United States) - See all my reviews
My partner and I are both on the autistic spectrum, and we've been buying a number of books to help us be aware of the potential pitfalls we may face in our relationship. While "Asperger Marriage" is an interesting account of a couple in which one partner is autistic and the other is not, it should not be thought of as the type of "self-help" book that my girlfriend and I thought it was. Rather, those in such relationships would do better to regard it as an example of possible difficulties they themselves may be facing in their relationships, not as a source of guidance on how to address and overcome those difficulties. Provided the reader enters into the reading with that in mind, "Asperger Marriage" is a worthwhile book for those in similar relationships.

Reviewer:    Linda Newland (Oregon, USA) - See all my reviews
WHY is this book good? Because like the first book dedicated to Asperger Marriage, Maxine Aston's "The Other Half of Asperger Syndrome," Gisela and Chris Slater-Walker have broken the barrier of the ring of "silence" surrounding partners' description of their own unique relationships in a "mixed marriage."

For anyone wishing to understand one couple's take on Asperger marriage, this book is a "must read." It is such a book not for the truth it depicts about AS, but for the process of frank communication and openness much needed in our culture of secrets about life-altering differences and the common phenomenon of late-life adult diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome.

WHY is this book important?

(1) It is important for readers to appreciate that mixed marriages exist, and they not only "survive" but thrive largely due to the open exchange of views between the partners. Because of the prevalence of Asperger Syndrome and a fifty-fifty chance that a primary relative is also somewhere on the autistic spectrum whenever a school child or young adult is "discovered," these "discoveries" come from somewhere. In most cases, AS children come from "mixed marriages."

(2) Within such marriages, especially where there are children, there are discrete, distinct voices waiting to be heard, each voice "speaking" from its owner's unique perspective. Disparaging those voices because they aren't harmonious is not respectful nor is it an intelligent kind of criticism.

On the cover of the book, the marriage band is not "broken." Some persons with AS will say, "My non-spectrum spouse is playing 'victim' and trying to change me or 'fix' me when I don't see a need to be changed. I am NOT broken!" In this book, Gisela and Chris offer a different perspective, revealing their frustration and discomfort as publicly to each other as they do to us, their readers. To bottle up such feelings works havoc on a marriage where both partners are trying to understand one another. For both partners to express themselves so openly is neither an act of abuse or disrespect. It is testimony to their courage and the faith they both share in the strength of their marriage.

Gisela is one of the founding members of ASPIRES. ... ASPIRES is
dedicated to supporting the open discussion of marital and couples' issues of AS couples for the purpose of greater understanding and enrichment of this special relationship.

Linda Newland, Co-Founder and list serv owner, ASPIRES
Roger N. Meyer, Co-Founder of ASPIRES and author, "Asperger Syndrome Employment Workbook"

Reviewer:    William McNeill "WooDMaN" (Michigan United States) - See all my reviews
First comment: Flog the editor. Perhaps the cumbersome and confusing writing-style was intentional; however, I fear that it was merely sloppy.
Second comment: Having AS myself, I was hoping for insights into coping and avoiding pitfalls. Instead, what I got was a chronicle of another couple's fumbles, stumbles and misunderstandings. I suppose the book lived up to its title; it never promised that it contained solutions or recommendations, merely that it was about An Asperger Marriage. I am still surprised by Tony Attwood's endorsement of this book.
Summary: If you want a peak into the lives of one "Asperger Marriage", this book may be for you. If, on the other hand, you're looking for advice and guidance, keep looking. (and let me know when you find it!)

link

I find the title misleading. Only one partner has AS. A true AS marriage, like mine, would mean both partners have it.

                                     Jerry Newport

I will take this Wikipedia post as sufficient evidence that it is necessary to be neurologically compatible with your mate, either an Aspie or Autie or at least a cousin.  I think my past bipolar girlfriends meet the criteria for cousins.

I have read a couple of books by Maxine Aston, although they upset me because they talk about it from the point of an NT who is in a relationship with an aspie and they talk about all of the downsides.
Also, the book tends to take the view that it is the aspie who has to change his ways (I say 'his' as very few women with AS are represented in the book - which in itself was a little annoying) rather than that, as in any relationship, it is up to both parties.

The books pretty much imply that if you are an NT in a relationship with an aspie, things are always going to be difficult for you and you shouldn't expect to feel loved or appreciated.

What confused me was that one had a foreword by Tony Attwood (who I used to have a lot of respect for) saying that people who have relationships with aspies are his 'heroes'.
I found this quite offensive as it implies that we are so hard to put up with and to love that someone choosing to tolerate act is an act of heroism and self sacrifice. This is quite insulting really.

My uncles in southern California call it The ____ Curse all the time.  Even their sister said it once after her divorce, before she remarried.

I think the consensus is in California (maybe also my aunt in Florida) that we are dealing with Asperger or something very similar.

ODD?  That was in that article the Geek Syndrome, an allusion to Douglas Copeland, "that guy has O-D-D he is odd"

I don't know how well Dad was as a spouse, he seemed to lack as a parent, no rapport building.

ODD is oppositional defiant disorder.  Most people who have it outgrow it.. but some do not take care of it and end up as very nasty adults.. and I have found many find their way to the Aspie Support groups....they are very difficult... remember also aspies are individuals.... there are NT dads who were like your dad....  Remember teh song "Cats in the Cradle"?

It is near impossible to have a support group in real life or on the boards with someone with ODD. I have a yahoo group myself and do not like to censor but had to with someone who was major ODD. My uncle had it and I well know the signs.. Like I said most outgrow it by 9.. but some are major disabled and do not take care of it.. like 4% OR SO....

I am optimistic that if an NT can learn how to push the right romantic buttons for a woman, an Aspergian can learn too.