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Autistic Serial Killers?
By: Robert Moran[/size]

Autistics are the perfect serial killers. At least that is what J. Arturo Silva and several colleagues have stated in a series of papers on the psychopathology of autism, written for the Journal of Forensic Science and the Journal of Forensic Psychiatry.

Silva states that Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Kaczynski may have had Asperger's. In Silva's report he states that Dahmer and Kaczynski both seemed aloof when dealing with other people. One of the characteristics of Asperger's is that we often forget that other people have feelings, and it is true that serial killers don't put much importance on the feelings of their victims. How could they when they are usually dismembering their victims or dispatching them in an even more emotionally remote fashion: mail bombs?

[Uh... maybe they were sociopaths? Does that maybe make more sense for serial killing terrorsits and canibals? ]

While most autistics forget about other people's feelings, there are often times that we remember.

Silva states that most serial killers often have repetitive behaviors, a characteristic of Asperger's, especially in the ritualistic manner that they kill.

[So do people with OCD and so do people with several other psycal conditions. Why presume Asperger's?]

The pathology of autism is the one thing all pathological disorders have in common. [What?? That makes no sense whatsoever!] We are often unable to empathize with others. I, for one, am no exception.

I can think of various examples where this has happened, perhaps too many to count.

Psychopaths, because of their delusional states, are often never cognizant of the feelings of the people around them, yet autistics can learn to recognize that others do have feelings through behavioral training and because we do not suffer from delusional behavior.

We're not crazy. We just lack common sense. [???? How ****** up is this guy???]

While Silva's claim may be plausible, it is also possible [ try "certain"...] that serial killers may have some other psychopathological disorder. Autism is referred to as a pathological disorder. It is often called autistic psychopathy. It shares several characteristics with schizophrenia including obtuse, ritualistic behavior. But while other pathological disorders also can create delusional states, autistics do not suffer from them.

While most psychopaths, a word which is derived from the word psychopathology, are dangerous criminals, autistics for the most part are the victims of crime.

Without knowledge about the nature of autism, reports such as Silva's can be. Such misunderstanding may unfairly cast a dark shadow over the autistic community.

Still, there is a link between Asperger's and crime, as some recent court cases have shown. But while those cases did not involve psychopathic behavior, the link is still evident

These cases, though sensational, can be dangerous and useful at the same time by creating fear in people who have not encountered someone with Asperger's, but also by creating awareness about the disorder.
The movie Dahmer attempts to show the human side of a murderer. It shows dahmer as being a logical thinking being, and not an animal. When killing his friend at the end of the movie he cries through the whole hacking and sawing.

Anyone can do anything, we're still animals...what, we think we've progressed so far that our morals match our greed? I doubt that.
NTs are just as likely to be serial killers than Aspies.

Quote:
These cases, though sensational, can be dangerous and useful at the same time by creating fear in people who have not encountered someone with Asperger's, but also by creating awareness about the disorder.



Bull$#!+ !

I'm quite certain that everyone, with the exception of some isolated populations, has encountered someone with Asperger's.  Take into consideration, not just diagnosed ones, but any aspie, including the ones who are and don't even know it.

Why "encountered"?  What, is encountering aspies like encountering aliens or ghosts or something?  Why not "met"?  Definitely some sensationalist crap here.

"NTs are just as likely to be serial killers than Aspies. "

Exactly. The author offers NO reason to think Aspies are more likely to be serial killers. He takes a bunch of "traits" of serial killers and attributes them to Aspies even though the connection between those traits are ar better connected to sociopaths than to Aspies.

But if he wrote an article (or if "J. Arturo Silva and several colleagues" wrote an article) saying "Sociopaths  are the perfect serial killers" everyone would just say "well, DUH, yes, of course. We've known that for a million years. They are using the hot-topic "Asperger's" angle to generate interest in themselves and their hare-brained theories.

And, Garmonbozia, I agree with what you said about people who have not "encountered" the rare and exotic Aspie. When I first started reading about and understanding Aspergers, I realized, "Oh -- this is Stan, this is John, this is Daniel, this is Jennifer -- so many students and friends I had known over the years.

People who say "I've never met anyone with Aspergers' amuse me. What they mean is no one has ever walked up to them and handed them a card that says "I HAVE ASPERGER'S."
Doesn't this just look like another witch hunt?  Remember back in the 80s where if you shared a drink with or touched a gay person you had AIDS?

Let them write off Dahmer as being autistic.  That doesn't make it true - and I highly doubt that in today's world of advanced mental health knowledge that in the end Aspies will be truly demonized.  No one can just be "sick in the head" anymore, some people just have to put a label on anything, and if it rhymes with hamburger then all the better to tell your other friends in back country Tennessee.

Honestly, I don't think there's anything to worry about.  Their arguments don't hold water.  There's a difference between forgetting other people have feelings and simply not figuring others' feelings into the equation of a real-time logical behavioral process.

Is there simply no such thing as evil to the modern world anymore?

erkolos Wrote:
Well, people easily make misconceptions.

In 1950's people thought that radioactivity was healthy, so they made creams radioactive. There's no reason such people who start such ideas don't live today.

Well yeah, the '50s were half a century ago.  Most people who were adults in the '50s are dead.

But yeah, radioactive creams probably didn't help none either.

Wow, way to "forget" to mention the other classic symptoms of a psychopath - lack of remorse, highly impulsive (kind of contradicts the routines of AS, don't you think?), deceitfulness, etc etc...
the idiot who wrote this might benefit from reading.

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal72.html


other then that.
some ppl are more intense, if a intense persons rock is rolling down the wrong side of the hill...

well lets just say that ppl dont just become something in a day.
they are formed.
i mean the whole discussion is ridiculous since specially in america where they put more money into jails then the educational programs.

they put more money in war then they ever put into the social wellbeing of their citizens.

this is just stupid.

btw, bush has killed people.
he is a terrorist and murderer but noone is locking him up,
he cannot really speak well, was addicted to alcohol.
he starts a WAR ON DRUGS, but the drug that screwed him up the most.
well, he looks between the fingers on that stuff.

just a idiotic topic.

arthurdent Wrote:
This is an affront to basic statistics. When you compare prevalence of a given characteristic in a smaller population to that of a larger population, you lose statistical significance. You might as well say that people on my street are 10% more likely to paint their houses beige with blue shutters, but there's no causative mechanism here. It's just that there are only ten houses on this block and one of them happens to be beige with blue shutters. There aren't a lot of autistic people, and there aren't a lot of serial killers.
Even if Dahmer and Kascynski were aut spec, who cares?


Exactly. Correlation doesn't necessarily indicate causation.

i'm scared that some day soon they will get what they want, the declartion that we are evil at birth and thus must never be born.
its way easier for neurotypicals to think that ppl with "faulty emotional chips" or whatever way they want to express it, are evil.
cos they are broken.
so to fix that we just remove them.
simple as that.
they are not fixable with therapy etc, cos they are broken.



...and they call us black and white.
a funny thing is that i have never met a american who likes bush.
my mothers side are from finland.
i am born in finland and have been living in sweden for much of my life.





"Between 1935 and 1975, for example, 63,000 people were sterilised on eugenicist grounds in Sweden."






GuessWho Wrote:
I am an American, just not a Bushie.

America is bigger than Bush.  Bush has less than two years in office but America will last forever, unless some of our zealots turn this country fascist.   If they do, I might visit one of your countries, one way.  Or investigate political asylum in Finland because my grandfather was an immigrant.

My other fear is we tank the economy with a runaway national debt, now that we're off the gold standard.  Divide all the gold and silver by the number of dollars and that dollar is less than half of a penny.  213 to one.

Uh, I thought a country's citizens paid for its government, not foreign investors.

The only threat to the existence of America are American extremists.  If we never forget what we stand for, we can be nuked germed or poisoned to death and the last survivors will fight for what we stand for.  

I seem to remember a little bit of British history.  Churchill and the Battle of Britain, 1940.  Bring it on, Adolf, you can bomb us, but you won't beat us.  Blood, toil, sweat, tears... we will never surrender.

Something to remember in this day and age.


bipolarbear Wrote:
the idiot who wrote this might benefit from reading.

http://samvak.tripod.com/journal72.html



they put more money in war then they ever put into the social wellbeing of their citizens.

this is just stupid.

btw, bush has killed people.

tenaciouscj Wrote:
I strongly suspect that there is no demonstrable link between autism and serial murder. There is a huge difference between being somewhat of a loner and awkward socially, and having a sociopathic personality.


But there is a direct connection between being somewhat of a loner and awkward socially and being accused of witchcraft.  Today "terrorist" or "serial killer" substitutes for "witch".

I have long thought that Ted Kaczynski was (is) an aspie, but he is far from your typical "serial killer."  In fact I'm not sure I would even classify him as a serial killer.  Pretty much he is a brilliant mathematician who could not handle and was repeatedly hurt by social interaction, and he snapped in a terrible way.  Explosives were/ are one of his obsessive interests.

I don't feel much pity for him, and there's certainly no excuse for his actions, but it's clear to me that he has Asperger's or some degree of high functioning autism (I can't remember if he had a language delay as a child).
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