Aspies For Freedom

The DSM-IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines Schizoid Personality Disorder as:

A. A pervasive pattern of detachment from social relationships and a restricted range of expression of emotions in interpersonal settings, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:

• neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family
  
  
• almost always chooses solitary activities
  
  
• has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person
  
  
• takes pleasure in few, if any, activities
  
  
• lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
  
  
• appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others
  
  
• shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affectivity
  

B. Does not occur exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia, a Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features, another Psychotic Disorder, or a Pervasive developmental disorder and is not due to the direct physiological effects of a general medical condition.

DSM-IV, which is an earlier version of DSM-IV-TR, does say that a person with Schizoid Personality Disorder may feel sensitive to the opinions of others and may even feel lonely but can not do anything about the loneliness due to the schizoid.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Quite a few of the items on that list match me very well, although there are some that don't match up perfectly (for example I am never indifferent to criticism, as I am extremely sensitive.  I may seem indifferent to praise but actually praise has an idiosyncratic effect on me--I like it but I feel like the person giving me praise is coming too close to me, in some cases.)

Anyone here been "misdiagnosed" or "misinterpreted" as Schizoid Personality Disorder, when it seems that Asperger's fit better?

Or vice versa?

And, what would be the core differences between Asperger's and Schizoid Personality?  Obviously Asperger's is listed as developmental disorder whereas Schizoid is not, but besides that fact, where specifically would you draw the line?

Interesting to see that I have a few things in common with Schizoid, although Asperger's matches me almost perfectly (however I don't have massive sensory problems, or major stims.)

Thoughts?

I had not heard of this before. It is interesting, all but the indifference to criticism matches my personality.

I would think the difference is that Asperger's is present from early childhood and throughout life. SPD seems to occur later, but it might be that as people develop and gain experience of life that they develop an indifferent personality.

I am interested to learn more about it.

I've read about this before, and when I read about it it was mentioned that it is often confused with AS, especially when dealing with teenagers or adults.

I think one of the differences is that Aspies do desire close relationships (though maybe not as much as NTs) but we are confused as to how to achieve them.
I personally don't really desire such things, however I do stim and like lining things up, so I could be either, both, or something else entirely.

I speak only for myself, of course, but I do desire close relationships with other people; I just have a very hard time forming or maintaining them. Also, there are lots of activities I take pleasure in, they just aren't usually things that most other people would find enjoyable. If I were to be diagnosed with some kind of personality disorder, I think I'd more likely be schizotypal than schizoid.

SPD lacks the autistic symptoms in childhood as well as the language aspects (but I do think there are similar mechanisms involved and AFAIK soft neurological signs are not unusual in SPD and other PDS. Whatever soft signs are), although some of the sensitivity in SPD might be misinterpreted as genuine sensory issues.

Also as was already said ASDs do not automatically make you aloof & indifferent to social contact.

I believe I have a few solitary personality traits but there are other things I cannot identify with at all (indifferent to criticism?!).

http://www.ptypes.com/solitary.html

(Donna Williams uses this in her Email consultancy to establish personality traits)[/align]

From:
http://www.ptypes.com/solitary.html

1.  Solitude. Individuals with the Solitary personality style have small need of companionship and are most comfortable alone.

2.  Independence. They are self-contained and do not require interaction with others in order to enjoy their experiences or to get on in life.

3. Sangfroid. Solitary men and women are even-tempered, calm, dispassionate, unsentimental, and unflappable.

4. Stoicism. They display an apparent indifference to pain and pleasure.

5. Sexual composure. They are not driven by sexual needs. They enjoy sex but will not suffer in its absence.

6. Feet on the ground. They are unswayed by either praise or criticism and can confidently come to terms with their own behavior.

I am actually a complete opposite of number 6--that one just couldn't be further from the truth!

The only one here that matches pretty well with me is number 1, although I do desire some companionship.  But I tend to avoid it because maintaining it is such ridiculously hard work for me.

As far as the second one goes, my personality is self-contained often, but in general I don't know how to do the little things an independent person could do with ease.  I'm overwhelmed by daily activities, sometimes.  Hence, at this point in time (living at home still, etc.) I am actually very dependent on others.  I would need continuous moral support from people if I was going to make a hard decision.  I need people to tell me what I do is good, for example I can't just live with composing artwork without having friends/acquaintances see it.  I have a great need to have my talents appreciated.

In general, this Solitary/Schizoid personality (from the site you listed, Noetic) doesn't fit me very well at all.  I actually need/desire interaction with people, although at the same time I am highly sensitive to social interaction so I tend to block it out/avoid it.  It doesn't seem like sensitivity is common with schizoid personality, either.. and I am a very sensitive person.

I tend to prefer solitude, but I most certainly need verification of self-worth from others (as you see from me in these forums) and I still need interaction.  Would this be Aspergian? [/b]

I definitely desire close relationships (I do get lonely sometimes) but forming them is difficult and overly complex for me.  Maintaining them is also difficult, I get frustrated by people often so I lose contact over time.

Hmm, it seems Aspie-ness fits me a lot better than Schizoid Personality Disorder.

Agree?

Hmm... Doesn't seem like SPD is actually a problem unless the person has the "doesn't enjoy anything" symptom. Otherwise you'd just have a loner who could be pretty happy just the way they are. Wikipedia, at least, says most SPD doesn't get treated because the person's OK with the way they are, and reasonably successful. It's not like they don't have a conscience, or are violent, or anything like the typical "dangerous loner" stereotype... they just don't particularly like human contact.

Anyway, if I didn't also fit the criteria for Asperger's, I'd be easily diagnosable as SPD. I'm a person who enjoys being alone, doesn't think of personal relationships as particularly significant, doesn't desire sex, cares most about her own opinions and knows better than to care what people think of her, have one friend who isn't family, and would be OK with not having contact with a family at all (well, unless that meant they'd have to die or something; I don't want that). It's not that I don't care (I don't have the "flattened affect" or the lack of interest and enjoyment in life unless I'm depressed, which I'm not at the moment); it's just that there are so many more interesting things than people.

If you could diagnose them both, I'd have them both. But the clause that puts AS over SPD if both are diagnosable puts me in the AS category.

This is definitely not true of all Aspies, though. I enjoy ideas and opinions, so I really only interact online and in real life because there are people who are willing to share their knowledge and ideas with me. But there are a lot of Aspies who want personal relationships, who want to get married, have children, be part of a group. That's OK; I might not like that very much myself, but I know other people find great pleasure in it; and I know that there is a lot to be said for interdependence. It's just not my style.

I guess the AS movement benefits most those Aspies who want contact, want to be part of a group, want to be accepted. For people like me, who really couldn't care less, Aspie pride is more about self-discovery, self-improvement, and a desire to make life better for the Aspies who do care what others think and suffer so much when public opinion and prejudice turns against them.

The main problem from the PoV of "the others" seems to be (going on self-reports on forums for SPDs) that typical SPDs tend to not see the point in working for a living. Also, some genuinely sound like they are scary & callous in their disregard of others' needs, this has nothing to do with not understanding the rules but everything to do with not caring about them.

This is a little bit like me.  I never understood the point of it either, but maybe that's because Asperger's is a developmental disorder... where you don't understand important things until later in life?

That's not like me at all.  I both understand the rules and have a lot of integrity about keeping some of them, especially respect for others (but not for jerks.)

Noetic, what do you think so far?  From all you've read do I seem more AS than SPD?

I can say that I have had a lot of paranoia, but not actual delusions.  It feels like "objective paranoia," whatever that means.  Based on my longterm memory coming back at me.

I desire acceptance on some level, but not to the extent of most NTs.
As far as what others think:

I do care what others think, in fact I care *too* much.  To the point where I have to block everything out because the environment/new people are so overstimulating, I can't process new information fast enough, and in addition to that I care what everyone thinks.

I must be a self-conscious Aspie, or a very self aware Aspie.

Does self-awareness with Asperger's mean you have a "lesser case" of it, than say, those who aren't as self-aware but have more outward signs like sensory/stimming problems?

I haven't been able to figure that out, yet.