Aspies For Freedom

"Successful" people, whatever you mean by that, still go to shrinks. I have a shrink and I'd say that my career path is going along nicely - but I'm only 18, so get back to me in a decade or two.

Also, friend of mine was diagnosed ADHD as a child and is now studying some sort of engineering.

Look at the progress the gays have made over the past few decades.  When you're stopped at a traffic light and the car in front of you has a rainbow flag on it, do you think anything unusual of it or even notice?  Early on, some of them decided to take a major risk for the benefit of those who would follow in later years.  The world was shocked, but got over it and learned to accept it.  

I remember when I first heard of that back in 1990.  I was a freshman in college, and had been attending a redneck high school the previous year.  (Sorry, but that much time among rednecks will make you apathetic and possibly even a little cruel.)  I had even been among those who yelled ugly things at the one gay guy at my high school.  (I remember that shamefully, mind you.    My only excuse is I had been a school nerd and that was the deficiency I had been compensating for.)  Now in college, I was in a classroom reading the campus paper while waiting for the Freshman Composition lecture to start, and it was the special "coming out" edition.  When I got to the part about their willingness to take risks so that others like them later on could benefit, they earned my respect right then and there.  In the years since, I've accepted gays and lesbians among my friends the same way I would accept those of other religions and ethnicities, and am a richer person for it.

There's always going to be some jackass who will try to maintain any stigma they can attach to others, to compensate for their own deficiencies and unwillingness to better themselves.  It's easier for someone like that to put others down than build himself (or herself) up.  It doesn't matter who you are, there's always going to be someone with an excuse to hate you.  There is no core of normality.  What's "normal" to one is "weird" to another.  You'll never please everyone.

I hope to see the day when I can slap an infinity sign (or whatever the chosen symbol ultimately is) on my car, and maybe have a few more on keychain, label pin, coffee mug, etc. and that be the only explanation I need, so that people understand and don't get offended when I forget to make eye contact or don't do a satisfactory job answering the question "How are you?" for the hundredth time in a day.

Yes, I was referring to them but also others.  Einstein is dead, and Bill Gates is very busy and can't be everywhere giving inspirational speeches.  (BTW, I'm currently reading Einstein's biography.  Tesla is next.)  I was referring also to the aspies among the more everyday engineers, IT professionals, etc. that you're sure to find working in almost any office park, the ones you can find in any city and who would be interested in the appropriate community involvement.

I've noticed the same sense of superiority you mention.  That is most definitely a problem, feeding into an us-and-them vicious circle.  I can't help but wonder how many frazzled parents (kind of like mine twenty years ago) have seen that and run screaming to the curebies.  It's just as bad as the feelings of inferiority we have all experienced.  It's a matter of striking a balance, as opposed to falling to either extreme.  You've got to remember, though, that what might be distant bitter memories to us, is in the present tense for these kids.  They're probably reacting to the fear they experience every day just walking the halls between classes.

(Well there you have it... my most verbose post yet.)

Indeed.  I'm an Aspie who doesn't fit the stereotype of high intelligence, at all.  I fit most of the negative traits, as well.  I choose not to even *bother* with social functioning, because I detest it that much, and don't even want to improve.  I stick to my routines to the disapproval of everyone, and won't change anything for the better.

So...  I would be an example of a "more troubled" person with Asperger's.

My mother's brother (my uncle) I just realized has a *ton* of Aspie traits, but he was *woefully* low intelligence.

About his only "strong" ability is longterm memory and some colorful use of language, otherwise he is lost.  He's lived in his childhood home for all 75 years of his life, and never got married.

I suck, and I hate myself.  This, at least, is true.

The problem is that no one is quite giving me the time of day.  Everyone in my life, psychologists, friends, family friends, family prefer to see me as a normal person who is probably extremely lazy and immature and selfish.

This is a problem.  Learning about Asperger's the past 4-5 months, realizing I very likely have it in the last 2 months (especially after seeing my brother has many of the traits as well--he even has more stims than I do) has shifted my position on myself a bit... I used to think I was just socially pathetic and immature, now I think some (not all) of these problems may be from Asperger's Syndrome.

In some ways I think this shift of self-perception is a bit better for me.  I think it may be better to think I have a lot of problems consistent with AS, than see myself as someone who should be shot for the crimes of immaturity and freeloading.

In some ways seeing myself as Aspie, thus, is positive.  It means that there are others out there like me.

I don't plan on using any possible DX of Asperger's as an excuse to suck at life.  I already suck as it is.  It wouldn't change a thing.  I am not satisfied with doing nothing.. the issue is that I can't figure out what I should be doing now, or what I'm "good enough" at.

At least knowing I'm probable AS tells me that finding a niche would be a good idea...  indeed, I've known that I prefer solitude over people for many years now.  Now, I know why, a bit better.

Anything wrong with self-discovery?  Geez.  I think finding out one is AS can be a good thing.  I feel it's been good for me, and no I haven't been going around and telling everyone about AS just so I can avoid their criticism.  I wouldn't even do that if I had a DX for AS.  I am not looking for an excuse.

Psychologists?  Not giving you the time of day?  If you pay for their time, they better be listening to you.  How many of these brain mechanics have you gone through, anyway?

Look, I wouldn't have made the "comedian" comment had I first seen one of your other threads (the one about everybody being distant).  But frankly, you're scaring me!  Most of us here just aren't qualified for that.  (Me, for example.  I work with computers all day and then come home and waste time on the internet.  Hardly relevant to what you're asking for.)  Maybe your family has an unintended tradition of low self-esteem.  I don't know.  Just figure out what you ARE good at and how to make it work for you.

Back to the topic of the thread.  What prompted me to start this thread is that I think there's alot of wasted potential out there, and if the personality type (and its image) could be made into something that everyone of it would want to associate with, that would connect the successful ones with the others (such that the successful ones influence the others) and unlock the otherwise wasted potential.

That's hard to define, but here goes...  It can be different things to different people, but on the most basic level it's general satisfaction with life, as well as self-reliance and dignity.

I would consider myself successful in that I am self-reliant.  I pay my own rent and bills on a place of my own, and am very glad I didn't end up in my parents' basement.  (They don't have a basement but you know what I mean.)  I've found friends of similar interests, who don't give me crap for being shy and quiet.  I managed to successfully complete a master's degree and hold a job that hits one of my obsessions, so I can be regarded as an expert at the subject matter of the job.  I also do volunteer work a few hours a week in something totally non-computer, but that I am interested in and that gives me a chance to do outdoor, physical work.  An end in itself, no.  I would eventually like to move up to a job in the same field that pays more (who wouldn't?) so that I can own a home instead of rent, and have some more money left over after expenses, to finance hobbies and vacations, and to support causes I like.  But that's just me, my accomplishments, and my goals.  Not everyone's is the same.

At the very core, it's the self-reliance and not having to be a burden on anyone, at least not until very old age anyway.  For AS, it would also mean being able to avoid feeding into the negative stereotypes that are out there.

There's a luck factor in there, too.  Some people never even get the chance to try.  Even if your luck is good, you're still responsible for making it work for you.  (Connecting the successful with the others would improve on the luck factor, building up social networks and facilitating the passing-along of "tricks of the trade".)

Now that I've said all that, I would like to see how the rest of you would define success.

I really don't mean to scare you guys.  I apologize for that entire "distant folks" thread.  I was having something of an emotional meltdown at that time, and combining that with alcohol was just not a good idea, nor was coming on this forum at that time.

At the least I hope you can see that I do have some talents, and that I'm not a terrible human being.  Despite not functioning at a high level at present, I still maintain a lot of integrity about certain things and the last thing I'd want anyone to think is that I'm some sort of freaky derelict.

I think you're quite a lot different from me cognitively--while I've always been enamored with computers, I don't have any of the math skills needed to go to far with the technical areas in that field.  My brother seems to have a similar cognitive profile to you, he is very adept with math/computers and might be more stereotypically Aspie in that regard.

I hope you won't bark at me for straying from the topic line again.. I am just trying to make it clear that I'm not the most gifted/intellectual Aspie out there, and secondly, I'm sorry if I have offended you.

Are we good?  I don't want to become the laughing stock of the town (Aspie forums) overnight, so I hope you can see I'm not trying to earn that title.

We're good.  I'm not offended.

I'm in my 30s now.  When I first started posting on this site, I mentioned that I was bothered by my past.  I can't take back my past, but I figure the next best thing is to see how I might be of assistance to others like me who want to take control of their futures.

I'm of the opinion that growing a subculture around AS, offline as well as online, is the best approach.  Not every aspie would have to be a "joiner" or identify with it full-time or even part-time, just that it be there when you need it.  One idea I posted elsewhere on this site might be a good catalyst to get it going:  http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/showthread.php?tid=6202

Here's a little experiment to put this to the test:

Suppose a large number of us who are not officially diagnosed but considering seeking it, divide into two equally-sized groups by random selection.  Each participant would make an appointment to ask a professional about AS.  (Spread it out.  Everyone goes to a different professional.)

The members of one group (Group A) show up for their appointments well-groomed and in business attire ("dressed for success").  The members of the other group (Group B) go to their appointments in ugly thrift-store clothes after 24 hours of not shaving or other grooming.  At the appointment, give the typical biographical information about being bullied in school, social difficulties, etc.  (All of it the truth.)

After everybody has had their appointment, put all the data together to see if there was any difference between the two groups, in the likelyhood of getting an official dx.  If Group B has significantly more official diagnoses than Group A, that would support my suspicion about who gets diagnosed and who doesn't.

If less successful Aspies happen to be lazy, it's probably more due to social difficulty than to laziness itself, as you seem to imply.

I didn't mean to imply laziness.  I meant to imply luck.  Basically, the lucky ones and the unlucky ones start out the same.  Then you have to "roll the dice of your life".  Some will get that dream job.  Some won't.  Where everyone goes from there depends on many factors, some of which can be controlled and some of which can't.

How one dresses for an appointment and the resulting first impression it makes, can be seen as an indicator of how they're doing in life.  If you wear a tie to an appointment, it looks like you're doing well.  If you show up in ugly clothes, it looks like you're not doing so well.  (Even though the experiment might take participants away from how they usually dress.  I work in a casual office, so I'd probably still have to refer to a guide to tie a proper half-Windsor in a tie.  I just wouldn't tell the psychologist that I normally dress casually.)

I've read on here about how alot of people who want an official diagnosis are having trouble getting one, while at the same time there are some who are officially diagnosed and don't want it.  I think the professionals are letting themselves get distracted from their patients' core personalities.  Either that, or they think it is more profitable to manipulate who bears the "AS" label, such that by separating the successful ones from the pack, they can more easily exploit the ones who aren't so lucky.  (e.g. Make you feel inadequate so they can keep offering you therapies and solutions for a price.  They'd have to make you feel like AS is something you want to distance yourself from, and would have a hard time convincing you if there are a bunch of successful aspies running around (and with a little luck and effort, you could be one of them).  They'll just be sure to exclude the successful ones from the group, knowing perfectly well it's the same type of person, successful or not.)