Aspies For Freedom

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The only theory that has ever made sense to me IS the Neanderthal theory, frankly. You need to read the entire study (Oxford University). It is quite long, but fascinating.

One thing for sure: the Neanderthals were strictly N. European and an interesting aside- had red hair and freckles. I have often heard teachers and doctors say redheads are disproprotionately ADHD for example.

Also, there seem to be few if any black Aspies- have you noticed this? And I have heard that there are NO Aspie or autism websites in Africa(at least as of several years ago).

Ellen, NT Mom to Aspie daughter, 15
and both of us are redheads!
Correct me if I am wrong, a two of a species by definition can always breed.
There is no difficulty with reproduction if one is AS or autistic and the other is not.
Strictly speaking we are still of the species homo sapiens sapiens.

Elsewhere in this site somebody suggested that over the course of many generations any species can break off and become a subspecies, Darwin and the finches, but a separate homo sapiens aspergerus subspecies is yet to come.

Perhaps it only looks like we cannot have children with NTs because of a strong human tendency toward endogamy.

Sociology 101: Endogamy, one group breeding only within itself,
Application to Asperger: The NTs might believe, even in some cases correctly, that AS cannot have intimate emotional relationships with them.

Myself, I am not prepared to accept that I cannot give and receive that kind of nuturing.  I feel too NT, as though the AS is so very mild.

I say across the board we all have feelings.
Did Neanderthals have a more open social structure and is that to say they were more tolerant?  
I have always perceived people as equals, perhaps due to parenting.  
I have actually practiced inter-racial dating.
To a limited extent inter-faith dating, which I do not think is a sin on the par with King David (in the Bible) having an affair with the wife of one of his best soldiers (who trusted him and whom David arranged to have killed in battle).

I think inter-faith marriage is acceptable within Christianity but is a mistake, because you could change your future....

a. you could marry within the Christian faith, be oh so grateful to Jesus for His blessing, have someone concerned about your spiritual life and able to help, you can look forward to eternity together, and there is no tension between the Son on one side and the moon on the other side (no tides)

b. or you could choose not to, be upset at Jesus at only making you wait, stay single, and to no end.  Best case, your spouse wants to help you in your faith but doesn't understand your faith.  Worst case, you might listen to some negative rantings because of your own hurt feelings over Jesus.  Can you look forward to eternity possibly without that person?  To say nothing of the kids.

Basically I don't want Jesus to be the God that failed.  My feelings could go down one road or the other.  

That is not to say that I'm not impatient with Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, though my Bible does tell me the Jews waited 400 years as slaves in Egypt.  (400 years is the entire time English-speaking people have permanently settled in North America, from Jamestown to today)

Batman55 Wrote:

jewelie Wrote:
Sorry if I'm duplicating here, but I wanted to add that I first heard about this Neanderthal theory in Jen Birch's book, Congratulations!  It's Asperger Syndrome.  I have not read the original link posted here, but I REALLY liked this theory as soon as I read about it in this book.

I also wanted to comment on Batman's creativity post.  It has always irked me that one of the diagnostic criteria for autism includes some badly worded phrase that means we lack creativity.  Every time I read such nonsense I am compelled to begin to list all of the amazing acts of creativity attributed to autistics, from art and literature all the way through to science and math.  Rigid thinking and creativity are not opposites.  Social conformity is the opposite of creativity, if you ask me.  It just reminds me of the "hypocritical ad hominem," accusing the other person of not being able to do what you cannot do yourself, but claim you can, or accusing the other person of doing publicly the very same thing you are doing privately, and getting away with it.  (Sorry no examples come to mind.)


Yes Jewelie, I was referring to a lot of those articles/statements written about AS which (personally) strike me to be somewhat true:  a lack of spontaneous ability in expression of self... the articles I refer to call this "lack of social imagination."  Social imagination is one "type" of imagination, and there is a bridge between imagination and creativity... to some extent.

Furthermore, I feel that a lot of Aspergians have some degree of difficulty with abstract thinking (myself included... reading between the lines in fiction/poetry is very difficult for me.)   To me, this can be interpreted as either a lack of creativity (which those articles/diagnostic criteria mention), or a simple "cognitive roadblock" that NTs aren't familiar with.  To me, still, this is a deficiency.

And yet... Perhaps it is the fact that we have this "abstractification difficulty," paradoxically, that makes us so creative.  We live without the convenient NT filter, the "automatic template" that everyone seems to have access to... except for those with AS.

So, those with AS have to find meaning and order manually, and consider everything mindfully...  every thought/item/concept in our world is considered separately, and compared to everything else.  One can see how this "mindful integration" can lead to some very unique interpretations... hence, potential for great creativity.

In summary, I do agree that Aspies can have extraordinary/unusual creativity, and this is one of our greatest strengths.  But at the same time, I think that problems with abstract/symbolic thinking can be considered a kind of "detractor" of creativity in some ways...  and this very problem has stifled my attempts at creative expression, time and time again.


I design logo's and you can't get any more creative, abstract and symbolic that designing a logo.  Smile  There's quite a lot of aspie's that work in Graphic design, so I don't think that bears out the idea that aspies are lacking in any three of these area's.  I love our infinity symbol.

Given that a lot of Aspies attempt suicide and often succeed, I'd say the ones who don't are considerably more likely to have perseverence, right?

Perseverance made me become a computer programmer when the job market did not want my kind of social researcher.

I also daresay perseverance has saved my life hundreds of times, because I have never actually attempted suicide.
I have exactly 20 years schooling myself.

Ellen

Batman55 Wrote:
You seem to skip right past the fact that there are many areas where Aspies are severely deficient in creativity; most of us seem to be very lacking in social imagination (spontaneous expression in groups, etc.), others wouldn't have the first idea how to fix a window without being shown the specific steps of how to do it (several times over.)  It seems information gained from specific tasks (for some Aspies) does not always "carry over" to other, related tasks the way it does for NTs.  This to me looks like a serious deficiency in creativity, as many of us can't "spontaneously" do things as we go along, intuitively.

I would agree,but interacting over the internet ,does wonders for one's social skills.It takes some work,and an honest effort,to apply this to real  life,and it still doesn't come across "natural",but it does improve them.

Batman55 Wrote:

I never said all Aspies lack symbolic/abstract/creative ability... but I know that symbolic thinking is a COMMON problem on the autistic spectrum.  We know that NTs are OFTEN good Symbolic thinkers, their words representative of nonverbal concepts.  We know that AS are OFTEN more literal-minded than NTs.

Well perhaps I did say that "abstractification difficulty" is a fact, and that may have been a poor choice of words on my part.  But then if it's not a fact, how is it so many Aspies have difficulty with fuzzy (dare we say.. abstract?) social interactions?


It seems to me that the problem is imprecision not abstraction.  It doesn't help either, for example, when "liberal" can mean "classical liberalism", "social liberalism", or a lite version of "democratic socialism".

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