Aspies For Freedom

Interesting article--and it�s given me an idea.

It seems to me that most if not all aspies have creative ability; we appear to have a far greater creative potential than is found in the general population.

In the past I�ve looked at the relationship between aspies and creativity.
I considered the possibility that the introduction of aspie traits into the human genome may have led to the birth of creativity--the origin of science, spirituality and art.

But this doesn�t make sense. Aspie creativity appears to be highly specialised. We�re not good at all creative activities. Few aspies can dance, play sport or do drama. We tend instead to better at drawing, painting and creative writing.

If creative consciousness existed before the emergence aspie traits--and if these traits came from the genetic influence of Neanderthals--what would their impact be on the human genome?

I suspect it would have led to a fragmentation of the creative consciousness. A heightening of certain creative skills and a lessening of others--allowing us for the first time to specialise.

The superimposing of Neanderthal traits may explain the islands of exception ability we sometimes see in aspies--while also explaining our inabilities.

Aspies should perhaps be seen as �creative specialists�--focusing there creative energies on a single specialist creative subject--leading to possible mastery of that subject. While the NT�s would have a more general diffused creativity--being quite good at everything from dance to drawing--but never achieving the level of expertise of an aspie specialist.

It�s just an idea--and rather depends on whether or not �modern humans� and Neanderthals actually interbred--which I believe is still a matter of conjecture.

Batman55 Wrote:

quickduck Wrote:

Interesting article--and it�s given me an idea.

It seems to me that most if not all aspies have creative ability; we appear to have a far greater creative potential than is found in the general population.

In the past I�ve looked at the relationship between aspies and creativity.
I considered the possibility that the introduction of aspie traits into the human genome may have led to the birth of creativity--the origin of science, spirituality and art.

But this doesn�t make sense. Aspie creativity appears to be highly��specialised. We�re not good at all creative activities. Few aspies can dance, play sport or do drama. We tend instead to better at drawing, painting and creative writing.

If creative consciousness existed before the emergence aspie traits--and if��these traits came from the genetic influence of Neanderthals--what would their impact be on the human genome?

I suspect it would have led to a fragmentation of the creative consciousness. A heightening of certain creative skills and a lessening of others--allowing us for the first time to specialise.

The superimposing of Neanderthal traits may explain the islands of exception ability we sometimes see in aspies--while also explaining our inabilities.

Aspies should perhaps be seen as �creative specialists�--focusing there creative energies on a single specialist creative subject--leading to possible mastery of that subject. While the NT�s would have a more general diffused creativity--being quite good at everything from dance to drawing--but never achieving the level of expertise of an aspie specialist.

It�s just an idea--and rather depends on whether or not �modern humans� and Neanderthals actually interbred--which I believe is still a matter of conjecture.

You seem to skip right past the fact that there are many areas where Aspies are severely deficient in creativity; most of us seem to be very lacking in social imagination (spontaneous expression in groups, etc.), others wouldn't have the first idea how to fix a window without being shown the specific steps of how to do it (several times over.) It seems information gained from specific tasks (for some Aspies) does not always "carry over" to other, related tasks the way it does for NTs. This to me looks like a serious deficiency in creativity, as many of us can't "spontaneously" do things as we go along, intuitively.

I suppose it all rather depends on what you consider as creativity. I don�t see having social imagination as creative; nor would I see being able to fix a window is creative--practical yes--but not really requiring much originality.

Also I don't think spontaneity has much to do with creativity--A painter plans to paint--a writer plans to write. And isn't going "along intuitively" what creativity's all about.

Anyway, I still not completely convinced of the human-Neanderthal interbreeding thing--just an interesting idea.

AS being more common among Europeans would fit with the theory--but diagnosis is always a difficult. It could be that Africans are undiagnosed for social reasons.

I have a recessive 'ginger gene' and some freckles--my second born son is a red head--but then so is my wife and she's very much NT.

I think there is still debate as to whether or not Neanderthals were a separate species--we were certainly both members of the Homo genus.

Andy Kennett Wrote:

This theory seems very good, and I have to admit that it seems pluasable that Aspies could be descended from Neanderthals. Many of the things said about Neanderthals seems to relate to us, such as Aspies tending to climb and jump (I crawl / climb the staircase at home, and sometimes I do get the urge to jump about a bit), being more into cold weather (Neanderthals adapted for colder climates), and the fact that (I at least) am not really very aggressive, unlike other men. It makes a good point that many autistics feel like they're the wrong gender (Girls being tomboys, and Boys being more passive), which the link says is due to Neanderthal groups being female-dominated (unlike NTs, where it's more male dominated).

You really do have to read the whole thing to get it, but I think it makes good sense.

I'd agree with that�its really does seem to make sense. But evidence is physical evidence appears to be scant and genetic evidence inconclusive.

Opps spelling...

Andy Kennett Wrote:

This theory seems very good, and I have to admit that it seems pluasable that Aspies could be descended from Neanderthals. Many of the things said about Neanderthals seems to relate to us, such as Aspies tending to climb and jump (I crawl / climb the staircase at home, and sometimes I do get the urge to jump about a bit), being more into cold weather (Neanderthals adapted for colder climates), and the fact that (I at least) am not really very aggressive, unlike other men. It makes a good point that many autistics feel like they're the wrong gender (Girls being tomboys, and Boys being more passive), which the link says is due to Neanderthal groups being female-dominated (unlike NTs, where it's more male dominated).

You really do have to read the whole thing to get it, but I think it makes good sense.

I'd agree with that�its really does seem to make sense. But physical evidence appears to be scant and genetic evidence inconclusive.

Opps...there goes my dyslexia again.

Should have read:

I'd agree with that�its really does seem to make sense. But the physical evidence appears to be scant and genetic evidence inconclusive.

Anyone�s welcome to steel my ideas--I don�t mind--in fact I�d feel honoured if you did lol.

Batman55 Wrote:

I still think I'm a real, bonafide lemon. Everyone always talks about getting through school faster here or with honors (AFF)--I have no such stories to report.

Sorry to complain but I don't know what my damn learning problem is. No one has ever clarified it for me. And I feel like an idiot, justifiably so. Aargh!

Your not a lemon Batman55--or any other kind of brightly coloured citrus fruit.

Although we don�t always agree--your contributions are clever and thoughtful; and often make a great deal more sense than anything I write.

You shouldn�t considered yourself an idiot--you seem a lot more intelligent than most people--with out without honours.

Opps there goes my dyslexia again...

That should have read--'with or without honours'.

Batman55 Wrote:

jewelie Wrote:

Sorry if I'm duplicating here, but I wanted to add that I first heard about this Neanderthal theory in Jen Birch's book, Congratulations!��It's Asperger Syndrome.��I have not read the original link posted here, but I REALLY liked this theory as soon as I read about it in this book.

I also wanted to comment on Batman's creativity post.��It has always irked me that one of the diagnostic criteria for autism includes some badly worded phrase that means we lack creativity.��Every time I read such nonsense I am compelled to begin to list all of the amazing acts of creativity attributed to autistics, from art and literature all the way through to science and math.��Rigid thinking and creativity are not opposites.��Social conformity is the opposite of creativity, if you ask me.��It just reminds me of the "hypocritical ad hominem," accusing the other person of not being able to do what you cannot do yourself, but claim you can, or accusing the other person of doing publicly the very same thing you are doing privately, and getting away with it.��(Sorry no examples come to mind.)

Yes Jewelie, I was referring to a lot of those articles/statements written about AS which (personally) strike me to be somewhat true:��a lack of spontaneous ability in expression of self... the articles I refer to call this "lack of social imagination."��Social imagination is one "type" of imagination, and there is a bridge between imagination and creativity... to some extent.

Furthermore, I feel that a lot of Aspergians have some degree of difficulty with abstract thinking (myself included... reading between the lines in fiction/poetry is very difficult for me.)�� To me, this can be interpreted as either a lack of creativity (which those articles/diagnostic criteria mention), or a simple "cognitive roadblock" that NTs aren't familiar with.��To me, still, this is a deficiency.

And yet... Perhaps it is the fact that we have this "abstractification difficulty," paradoxically, that makes us so creative.��We live without the convenient NT filter, the "automatic template" that everyone seems to have access to... except for those with AS.

So, those with AS have to find meaning and order manually, and consider everything mindfully...��every thought/item/concept in our world is considered separately, and compared to everything else.��One can see how this "mindful integration" can lead to some very unique interpretations... hence, potential for great creativity.

In summary, I do agree that Aspies can have extraordinary/unusual creativity, and this is one of our greatest strengths.��But at the same time, I think that problems with abstract/symbolic thinking can be considered a kind of "detractor" of creativity in some ways...��and this very problem has stifled my attempts at creative expression, time and time again.

I design logo's and you can't get any more creative, abstract and symbolic that designing a logo. Smile There's quite a lot of aspie's that work in Graphic design, so I don't think that bears out the idea that aspies are lacking in any three of these area's. I love our infinity symbol.

Batman55 Wrote:

We know that NTs are OFTEN good Symbolic thinkers, their words representative of nonverbal concepts.��

Maybe I should replace "words" in the above sentence, with body language/facial expression. Oh stuff it, I just can't get anything right.

You shouldn�t be so hard on yourself Batman55. You�re a clever guy who makes intelligent and insightful comments--I for one have learnt a lot for you. Don�t worry if you post something that you later regret--I�ve done that countless times--I�m sure many of us have. The important thing is that we contribute what we can and learn from each other. No one has all the answers, but together we can find the truth.

Batman55 Wrote:

quickduck Wrote:

Batman55 Wrote:

We know that NTs are OFTEN good Symbolic thinkers, their words representative of nonverbal concepts.��

Maybe I should replace "words" in the above sentence, with body language/facial expression.��Oh stuff it, I just can't get anything right.

You shouldn�t be so hard on yourself Batman55. You�re a clever guy who makes intelligent and insightful��comments--I for one have learnt a lot for you. Don�t worry if you post something that you later��regret--I�ve done that countless times--I�m sure many of us have. The important thing is that we contribute what we can and learn from each other. No one has all the answers, but together we can find the truth.

It's just that I thought my earlier post about abstract/symbolic thinking was spot-on, and I had to have someone show me it wasn't.

I think your comments concerning abstract/symbolic thinking are excellent--�spot on' in fact. I really enjoy reading your posts; they make me see things in a whole new way--from a different angle--make me question my assertions. You have a gift for seeing things other people miss.

Because you see things differently, doesn�t mean you see them wrongly.

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