02-11-2007, 08:22 PM
02-11-2007, 09:04 PM
Wow, what a harpy. It's my experience that when people spout off like that out of nowhere it's nothing more than a flimsy self esteem enhancer that they feed off of. But wow, a grown adult? She has to have some heavy baggage.
The way I would look at it is the way that you seem to be looking at it. Imagine a guy being born into wealth ending up slightly less wealthy in his middle ages, and a guy being born into destitute poverty ending up middle class. Whenever the rich guy sees the middle class guy he comforts himself by saying to himself that that person isn't worth as much as him, but the middle class guy knows how hard he had to work to get to that point vs the other guy who only lost ground. Do you see what I'm saying? The value of a person can't be measured by where they end up but by what they've accomplished with what they started with.
The way I would look at it is the way that you seem to be looking at it. Imagine a guy being born into wealth ending up slightly less wealthy in his middle ages, and a guy being born into destitute poverty ending up middle class. Whenever the rich guy sees the middle class guy he comforts himself by saying to himself that that person isn't worth as much as him, but the middle class guy knows how hard he had to work to get to that point vs the other guy who only lost ground. Do you see what I'm saying? The value of a person can't be measured by where they end up but by what they've accomplished with what they started with.
02-11-2007, 10:15 PM
good for you. you have more self confidace than they seem to.
02-11-2007, 10:50 PM
glad i could be of help.
02-12-2007, 01:21 AM
Wow! What a ***!
I think the fact is that you don't know how to protect yourself and leave yourself wide open to these kinds of attacks. This is not through your own fault however as AS can steal away one's intuitions for dealing with situations like this and further more preventing them in the first place.
Here's a harsh truth: Women are not attracted to men they percieve as weak, and can be rather hurtful towards them as you have experienced here. When she was asking you if you had a girlfriend and where you lived she was REALLY asking you if you're a loser (According to her value system). You should never have answered these questions and just said , "What does it have to do with you?"
What you need is to learn how to become assertive, and what people are really getting at when they ask you these questions. I know you're not really a loser. You are just a person with AS that gives you certain difficulties. If you keep reacting in the way you do, these accusations towards you will continue.
I think the fact is that you don't know how to protect yourself and leave yourself wide open to these kinds of attacks. This is not through your own fault however as AS can steal away one's intuitions for dealing with situations like this and further more preventing them in the first place.
Here's a harsh truth: Women are not attracted to men they percieve as weak, and can be rather hurtful towards them as you have experienced here. When she was asking you if you had a girlfriend and where you lived she was REALLY asking you if you're a loser (According to her value system). You should never have answered these questions and just said , "What does it have to do with you?"
What you need is to learn how to become assertive, and what people are really getting at when they ask you these questions. I know you're not really a loser. You are just a person with AS that gives you certain difficulties. If you keep reacting in the way you do, these accusations towards you will continue.
02-12-2007, 05:23 AM
Michael 1 Wrote:
she went on with the questioning and ultimately came to the conclusion that I was weird, very odd and she suggested that because of these things ( and because I wasn't gay ) that I couldn't be a real man.
Am I really such a waste of time? Is she and the others correct? I don't think she is because everyone is different and I am very different compared to most. What do you think about this?
Am I really such a waste of time? Is she and the others correct? I don't think she is because everyone is different and I am very different compared to most. What do you think about this?
You are quite obviously a real man; she's obviously not a real human being. different is good- stupid *** is not, so forget her. her rude and personal comment is also very inappropriate for the workplace. if she tries it again tell her so.
02-12-2007, 05:26 AM
Some people are very threatened by anyone that doesn't share their values. Maybe that was her real issue.
02-12-2007, 05:33 AM
nb411 Wrote:
Here's a harsh truth: Women are not attracted to men they percieve as weak, and can be rather hurtful towards them as you have experienced here.
That's a rather sweeping generalization! Many women have a strong "maternal" urge and are particularily drawn to men that some would call weak, lost, troubled, different...
I'm not saying you're any of these things, Michael- i'm just rebutting nb's comment.
02-13-2007, 02:42 AM
Yes, you are a "real" man.
And she's a real ***.
BTW, it's very accepted in many cultures (a lot of Europe, for example) for adult children to still live with their parents....doing this does NOT make you "immature" or "a loser."
And she's a real ***.
BTW, it's very accepted in many cultures (a lot of Europe, for example) for adult children to still live with their parents....doing this does NOT make you "immature" or "a loser."
02-13-2007, 06:21 AM
nb411 Wrote:
Yes I know not every single woman on the earth reacts like this, and I did say "can be". But just think for a second...How attracted is a woman towards a man when she is acting as his "mommy" vs because he's a strong attractive MAN. Give me one good example where a couple stayed madly in love for 40+years in "mommy" type relationship.
you said, "women are not attracted to men they percieve as weak, and can be rather hurtful...".
i did not say a mommy relationship. by "maternal" (originally in quotations for this reason) i was referring to the tendency for many people, not just women, to be attracted to and feel protective of another person's weaknesses or foibles.
many women, including me, find the idea of a MAN (uppercase emphasis yours) very unattractive. my mother has been happily married to a lowercase man for 21 years. why is being different not masculine? it takes great courage to be different.
i would be interested to know what your definition of a "MAN" is.
02-15-2007, 07:13 AM
quickduck Wrote:
Interestingly enough there does appear to be some crossover of masculine and feminine characteristics among the aspies of this website. The AFF guys appear to be more introspective and sensitive than average. While the women are interested in science and technology (traditionally male obsessions).
This undermines the 'male brain theory' for Aspergers. There appears to be more of a blending of male-female gender traits rather than a heightening of male traits as is suggested by this theory.
Perhaps its time we redefined what it means to male and female. Maybe this blending of gender traits means that male and female aspies can actually cooperate and meet each other as equals (in a way NTs cannot)
An end to 'the battle of the sexes?'
bang on.
02-15-2007, 08:12 AM
nb411 Wrote:
Ok I apologise, "most" and I say most (because it's too dificult to determine the exact number of NT women) find a real MAN attractive.They may not be able to put it into words but it is absolute fact.
Why would a woman not be able to put her likes or dislikes it into words? This statement smacks of sexism. Absolute fact? This is your absolute OPINION, and your personal THEORY- but not a fact. Where is your proof?
You wrote that women want a man that...
nb411 Wrote:
Is taller than her
Walks on the outside of the kerb when they are walking together (protective and self sacrificial)
Walks on the outside of the kerb when they are walking together (protective and self sacrificial)
My last boyfriend was an inch shorter I, and I never noticed which side of the pavement he walked on.
If by protective you mean physically, then no- that's not necessary either. I happily take care of myself (and my boyfriend if he needs it : ) ).
nb411 Wrote:
Opens doors for her
Has high social status
Has high social status
SO unimportant.
nb411 Wrote:
Has the ability to say "no" once in a while
? I prefer a man whose vocabulary reaches further than "no".
nb411 Wrote:
I have put a lot of research into this so I'm not just talking out of my ring piece.
What kind of research? I'd love a reference.
I would say honesty, a good sense of humour, a respectful attitude, good hygiene, and an open and active mind are the deal makers/breakers.
I find it interesting that "saying no", status, being taller, and even standing on the outside of the kerb made your list- but honesty and respect did not. I think you priorities are very unusual. The average woman (as or nt) is far more sensible.
Why is being different not masculine? It takes great courage to be different.
nb411 Wrote:
I like this one. It's not masculine because...well... it's not masculine. If you are different from masculine then what does that make you? Not masculine. It takes courage to be different, so like not being masculine right? Being masculine takes courage! If you are referring to a different kind of AS masculinity according to your value system then how does this take courage? You have AS and therefore you are different. Courage is irrelevant here.
Courage is always relevant.
You wouldn't happen to be into that "sarging" scene, would you? Your attitude sounds familiar.
02-15-2007, 11:44 AM
green0horse Wrote:
We with AS truly have a disability. Its not a disability because we aren’t capable of what NTs are capable of. It is because we live in their world, we have to play by their rules otherwise we can’t survive in this society. As Aspies we have to adapt, not because their way is better but because its their society.
So when the **** *** (yes she was a **** ***) called you a loser it wasn’t because she was insecure (well some of it probably had to do with that) but it was her way of telling you that she was better than you, of course she didn’t have the intellectual capability to express that.
But of course she is wrong, the truth is she might be better off than you, which even that is doubtful since she works where you work, but at the same token it is obvious why the society considers us week. They run around trying to stab each other in the back, chasing glory and money because it is the only measurement of worth in our society. But guys like you and me (there are also NT people who are unmotivated and fit into Micheals and my category) don’t care about all of that, we are happy to make it by with whatever we can. There is nothing wrong with it but within our society guys like us will always be looked down upon.
Yes, under the current circumstances you and people with AS are disabled. Probably, I can agree to put it this way. But probably, I won't. The fact that people do not know enough about autsitic brain does not mean there is something wrong with autistic people. Human civilization exists for thousands years, and morally and spiritually hasn't progressed a lot since its very beginning. I am very much affraid I sound pathetic, but the truth is that we hasn't found the God yet and He didn't say yet that our way is the only good way. Money is not a God. We live in a money world, you are right, and few of us live with the God. I just want to say, that we live because we are to be appreciated for what we are, not because we are to be hated. We need to progress in understanding of diversity. Not only train our autistic and asperger kids to adjust to self-confident us, but to doubt ourselves and our ways of living and change them for better.
I cannot possibly imagine what it is like to live in a world, ruled by people with different type of psychics. I am an NT living in NT world. But I would like to ask you to not trust us when we are mistaken. Forgive us for not knowing. Again, I am affraid to sound pathetic, and not practical. I teach my son to speak my language and live in the real world. But one thing that I would like to make clear is that every AS man and woman are real. Michael is one of the most real persons for me, even though we never met. You were brave enough to disclose your doubt in yourself, and not every NT man can do it.
Just wanted to disagree that AS are losers, and should be ashamed about living with parents, not going out. It's OK to be different.
02-16-2007, 01:07 AM
Michael 1 Wrote:
I think the kind of comments this woman made and the many similar comments I recieved from other people will continue for the reasons green0horse says. I'm not into status or money ( which often really means being in debt ) or being popular. I don't show affection to others so I don't expect it back and when it happens I reject it, so its no surprise I feel distant from people. I can't change this and wouldn't want to.
In the wider world I am not living correctly or doing the right things. The polite term is different. Weird isn't so bad. Loser is what people really mean. People think this even if they are nice to me or enjoy my company. I am still defective to them. And I don't know anyone else who is my age and is like I am.
I don't play the victim, far from it, everyday is a fight and today is another day survived. In reality I have had to work quite hard today serving lots of customers and it is tiring. At the end of it I have been paid, but I've achieved nothing of value for myself. So I'm wrong to do the things that help her and those like her to aspire to her ideals of life i.e. do a *** job, for *** money, to buy more *** stuff. I would love to leave that situation, but I don't think I should be forced out of my income which I earn fairly. My income pays for the interests I enjoy.
I go to work to earn money to enjoy my life away from work not to be involved in all this interpersonal stuff, but it is unavoidable.
In the wider world I am not living correctly or doing the right things. The polite term is different. Weird isn't so bad. Loser is what people really mean. People think this even if they are nice to me or enjoy my company. I am still defective to them. And I don't know anyone else who is my age and is like I am.
I don't play the victim, far from it, everyday is a fight and today is another day survived. In reality I have had to work quite hard today serving lots of customers and it is tiring. At the end of it I have been paid, but I've achieved nothing of value for myself. So I'm wrong to do the things that help her and those like her to aspire to her ideals of life i.e. do a *** job, for *** money, to buy more *** stuff. I would love to leave that situation, but I don't think I should be forced out of my income which I earn fairly. My income pays for the interests I enjoy.
I go to work to earn money to enjoy my life away from work not to be involved in all this interpersonal stuff, but it is unavoidable.
I agree with you completely. although we are somewhat different it seems that we are living close to the same life. this life is so very tedious and pointless for the very reasons you just pointed out. I feel trapt and im sure you do too.
thanks for starting this thread, it helps to know that there are other out there like me.
02-16-2007, 07:23 AM
Michael 1 Wrote:
In the wider world I am not living correctly or doing the right things. The polite term is different. Weird isn't so bad. Loser is what people really mean. People think this even if they are nice to me or enjoy my company. I am still defective to them. And I don't know anyone else who is my age and is like I am.
Ok, I will not argue, but I will keep my opinion.