I'd agree with that. It sounds like your learning style is different from the norm.
Also people mature at different rates. I did particularly badly in school but now have a degree. I get distracted very easily, but have found my distractibility improves my creativity. IQ isn't everything. It tests only a very limited range of skills.
The school system's set up for a single learning style. And if you don't think in that style, its easy to feel unintelligent and a failure (I know I did).
I agree. However, "mature" ?
I still don't like that term, nor its opposite.
I didn't mean to imply you were immature...
Just that different skills and can mature at different rates, in different people.
My intellect matured very slowly...but I feel this has been of great benefit to me.
(like a fine wine, maturing slowly...but better tasting because of it).
That makes a lot more sense.
Anyhow, from what you gather of me thus far, does any of this seem Aspie like to you?
I generally did well academically, but by fifth grade I was struggling a bit in some areas, especially in maths, but hid it as I was ashamed and thought my parents would be angry with me.
The best way I could learn is through copying and summarising information off a blackboard or book or by having somebody sit down with me and show me how to do things. Auditory learning is not my strong point, but I can generally manage if it is accompanied by visual presentations.
Not doing well academically is in NO WAY an indication of lack of intelligence. Some people who are not particularly smart do well in school because they spend a great deal of time studying and are very determined to do well or because they are predominantly auditory learners.
Others who are much brighter do not do so well because they become alienated or because their preferred learning style is not catered for in the school system. They are often the children who would benefit from being homeschooled.
I have felt like a failure because despite a gifted IQ, I didn't finish the university course I stared and feel I let my parents down. But then again only 25% got through and I now realise I was quite unsuited for that course.
Some Aspie friends of mine did poorly at school because of learning disabilities (I would actually call them "teaching disabilities" because these young men are all very intelligent and have good knowledge in certain areas - it was only that the traditional teaching methods didn't suit them).
Batman 55, I probably can't tell you not to hate yourself because sometimes I am really down on myself too, but please try not to blame yourself for everything that has gone wrong. I think you are doing very well, considering, and that is something I must learn to tell myself more often also.
Why does it seem like most Aspies--at least judging from these forums--are gifted, or otherwise very intelligent?
I'm not gifted, and "very intelligent" doesn't really fit me either--I'm not able to learn about certain "important" topics, like politics, because they're so complex and nuanced that the Aspie learning style of "break things down into logical pieces" doesn't really work! It takes too long.
And it often takes me 1 month to read a 200 page book. I have to work *so* hard on staying focused in the book, and processing the information correctly, that if I just "breeze through" like a normal person--ie, read one page in 15-20 seconds, the meaning is lost on me.
Aren't there any Aspies of average intelligence?
I feel left out, even on these forums... 
Batman55, your writing is articulate and insightful, that is one area in which you should be confident. 
As for intelligence, after years of being considered a gifted slacker by parents and teachers, I am actually relieved to discover the many limitations of my learning abilities. I was reading a bit by the time I started kindergarten and have always done well on verbal skills tests, but I am a terribly unfocused, undisciplined and unmotivated reader, which explains my (mostly poor) academic career. I learn new tasks and routines rather slowly and do a terrible job of training a new co-worker, even though I have been at my job for 18 years and "should" find training easy. Lately I have concluded that my verbal gifts have fooled people into thinking I can do anything...the truth is, I sound smarter than I am! 
Think of all the things you can do easily and naturally, even if they do not seem like things that society values, and you will see that you are intelligent! Remember, nobody can do everything well.
It would seem that verbal skills are one of just a few things that come naturally to me. Most other things take too long to learn--for instance it takes about 100x longer to perfect certain things that most NTs can do in about 2-3 tries.
I don't know anything about cars, for instance, and I don't even want to learn. I have to be told very specifically what to do if I have a problem with my car. I don't even know how to go down to the auto place and ask for an oil change! That's "overwhelming" for me... talking to strange people who will suspect I'm a complete idiot for knowing nothing about cars.
I have had bad experiences with these things. I went with my brother once to renew my learner's permit, because they expire after six months if you don't take the Real Driving Test in that time. The guy looked all funny as if he was about to laugh at me: "I've never had to do one of *these* before..." I was embarrassed to tears.
I am a very creative person, and that's my greatest gift. But mostly, that's to the exclusion of everything else. Really good in one area, and completely incapable in others.
Some people say I'm very intelligent, even brilliant at times, but I still think I'm mostly a lemon. And I have self-loathing for that reason.
I always wanted to drive. I passed my test 21 days after my 17th birthday. I saw it as my freedom. I know alot of men who can't drive. Mostly they either can't cope with the multi-tasking or they can drive but can't cope with the test. I am obsessed with cars so I know alot about them but I am not creative at all so I lack those skills. For example if I was in an art class drawing say an apple I would draw a diagram of the apple and not a picture of the apple that gives it meaning, with shading for light and texture, etc. I only see the purpose in things rather than their asthetics so I lack the inspiration of creativity. I am the same with books. I don't enjoy stories that don't relate to reality. Each person has different skills and talents. We are all intelligent in some ways. Self-loathing is not good at all. Just out of interest do you keep a diary?
No diary.
I'm a creative/artsy Aspie, I see visuals a lot more detailed in my head than most.
I actually dislike stories that relate too much to reality!
I have trouble with linear thought, so I'm not very good with math or anything that relies heavily on things being done one step at a time, in a specific sequence. Often, I've questioned my intelligence, but ultimately I think that I just learn in a way that is extremely unusual. Many "dumb" people probably have the capacity to learn just as much as others, if they're taught it in a way that plays to their mental strengths instead of being forced to try to process information the same way that everyone else is.
It seems that I also have this same problem of "linear thought."
Is this problem common among Aspies?
Because it would go against the stereotype that Aspies are "supposed to be great at Math."
I have trouble with linear thought, so I'm not very good with math or anything that relies heavily on things being done one step at a time, in a specific sequence.
I have the same problem, I have trawled through some learning style sites over the weekend and apparently this is supposed to be common in "right-brained people" (not that it is as clear-cut as that), e.g. that you learn 'randomly' and don't pick information up in sequence. That certainly applies to me very strongly, I can learn things that are in sequence if I repeat the sequence often enough (usually by writing it down over and over) but usually I just read loads of different bits in a seemingly random order, and over time my brain seems to fit them together (although I do not always have conscious access to the end product).
Well, this defines almost *exactly* the way I learn. I don't learn things in the proper sequence.
I would imagine a lot of Aspies learn this way though--as they say, "we see things others don't see." It appears this style of learning correlates highly with that statement--in other words, noticing random details that don't necessarily to connect to anything, but are profound if examined in the correct light.
Probably the Aspies really good at art, etc., learn things in this way--to excess, though. I appear to be one like this.
It seems that I also have this same problem of "linear thought."
Is this problem common among Aspies?
Problems with sequencing are common among the autistic spectrum and particularly in dyslexia, but as I mentioned in my post above this one, the "random" factor (learning best by soaking up lots of information and having little choice in what your brain "chooses" to retain) has been mentioned in connection with "right-brained learners".
I don't have *any* dyselxia, though. That's the odd thing. But at the same time, I have a *very* slow rate of reading, but then that also depends on what I'm reading. If it's non-fiction I can sometimes breeze through if the writing isn't too technical; with most fiction though, I just can't breeze through. I don't enjoy novels/stories if I don't soak up every detail. And I miss the point of the fiction if I read too quickly... I just can't "figure out" which information is most important, so I have to read slowly to gather everything.
But that's how it is with Asperger's. We like to focus on details, and tend not to get the big picture as well as NTs do--but we can *use* the dozens of details to put some kind of big picture together, although it's done differently than an NT would do. And often slower.
Noetic,
Do you have difficulty in Math?
I have a *serious* problem with remembering how to do things properly in Math, above the basics, I mean. Go past Algebra 1 and I'm lost.
I wonder if this is the "linear thinking, sequencing problem," right brain learning tendency, or Asperger's Syndrome... or all of them together?
Can you simplify things a bit more for me? I'm even getting lost with your last two messages... I can't find the "underlying" point of them. I apologize.
Basically I'm asking is this serious Mathematical deficiency of mine a learning disability? If so, what kind of learning disability? And is it one that could be tied to Asperger's?
Keep it simple and I'll get it.
thanks...
What you've described is very familiar to me, and I don't consider myself unintelligent. I think you're being too hard on yourself.
Well, how familiar is it?
I am being hard on myself, but I deserve it. I don't measure up the intellectual standards around me, and I have to punish myself for this.
That's silly. If you don't measure up to the standards, you need some new standards. How can you do any more than your best? (And by "your best", I mean including things like motivation and other things that have an effect on your output, not just your theoretical best under the best possible circumstances.)
You don't deserve to be "hard on yourself"; no one deserves that. I understand wanting to do your best; I understand being disappointed when you don't; I understand pushing the limits of what you can do. But when you start to get discouraged just because you don't do what, under the circumstances, you weren't capable of in the first place, it doesn't make sense anymore.
What new standards are you talking about? Might you be implying that I should lower my standards to how well I can flip a pizza slice? I would do well "within those standards," indeed, so you might be onto something.
I said I don't measure up to the cognitive/intellectual standards that seem to be exhibited by most people I have observed in school, and in this area (I live in affluent suburbs). I have correctly observed that even those who are outwardly "not brilliant" (as I have had friends who are far from gifted) have done better in school than I have.
In mid high school (10th grade) and community college I observed that I wasn't "naturally good" anymore. In those curriculums, I tried to do well but I eventually figured out that it took me approximately 50 times longer to do generic school assignments than most people around me. And once I figured that, I HATED every moment of my schooling and I became despondent and self-loathing.
The only class I enjoyed in community college was an elective. That was it, and then I willfully took a zero and dropped out of most classes because I just couldn't hack it anymore. I couldn't interact socially with new people, either--that was a major reason why I quit. And also, people who looked like dumb vegetables exhibited greater general ability than I did.
Why are my skills so uneven? Why do I have strong skills in verbal ability (vocabulary, grammar, general writing) and pathetic ability in everything else?
Why is my cognitive profile so lopsided? I can't explain it. Everyone tells me, "If you can write the way you do, why can't you do other things well? You're just lazy and immature, for not trying."
I have tried other things, and I sucked at them. I'm a very creative person, but what good is that if you don't have a "fast mental processor"? In my experience, it's a massive hindrance. It takes me a month to read a 200 page book, if you need an example. Actually, even longer!
Very familiar. I don't know how to quantify that.
School isn't made for people with AS. They expect you to intuit a lot. Teachers didn't know what to do with me in school. I'm good with words, and sometimes they wanted to put me in the honours classes, but I suck with math, and sometimes they wanted to put me in the 'slow' classes. They didn't understand me, and I didn't understand them.
Besides, people with AS have a lot of trouble paying attention to things that don't interest them.
I think the way you express yourself proves that you're not an unintelligent person. We all have strengths and weaknesses. Our strengths usually coincide with our interests, and we're not as good at things that we find boring. That's perfectly normal, and it may be even more typical for an Aspie because of the way we focus on things.
Well, now that you described it, it is quite familiar. People couldn't understand why I was so good at certain things, and quite awful in many others. It didn't make sense.
I had one teacher who marvelled at my verbal/writing ability, and thought I must be quite a well-read literary expert. When I said it takes me a month to read an average book, and that I almost always have problems with reading comprehension, she was shocked.
It doesn't make sense.
BTW just out of curiousity Solana, are you an Aspie who desires relationships on some level, but finds it difficult to form them? I am one, I get lonely a lot, despite liking solitude at the same time.
I am also only avwerage intelligent , additionally to that I am have a rather rare scheme I think , I suck at logical things ,really I do , and I dont have any creativity etc, The only thing I am good at is actually .... Reading . I am the msot fast reader in my grade (year 13) , I can see that when everybody is still hanguing over their texts , but I have finished the text for already soem minutes. (It is no rarity that I have to wait 10 minutes till the others are ready, when I have to wait. )Even the fastest one apart of me arent faster than a 5 minutes distance in time between them and me...) I never trained my speed and I am not reading superficially if I dont have ot (because I am searching for a word or so) On the other hand I am not one of these who compete in reading tournaments , where the peopke read one page like on two sights.)
Are you good with reading comprehension?
I read slowly because I have trouble with short term memory, figuring out what's important, and also reading comprehension (abstract thinking.)
If I didn't have those problems, I would be reading at exactly the same rate as the average person.
The IQ test comes in many different types, but in the end it's just a test and nothing else. It's sad but true that some people think IQ tests are the trueth tellers of real intellegance, when they only test for limited areas of funcion. I passed several times with averge IQ. One of the reasons for that is because I just don't know how to do certain problems in the test.
If I knew how, I would probably get a far higher score. I'm trying to figure out what the problems are lately and how they are supposed to be solved. Any person needs the proper things to fall into place in order to learn in good ways, despite any problems in some mental skills. If we just don't get the kind of edgucation we need, we of course don't learn from the stuff that doesn't work! How does that really make a person stupid when so many other people are involved?
In my oppinion, judgemental people are the ones confused and who need help.
Well, the school system is mostly designed for "generalist learning ability"--in other words, for those with an even set of skills.
If you're not like that, then the school system probably won't work for you.
Teachers just didn't understand how I could be so good at one thing (writing, verbal ability) and horrible in most other things, including reading comprehension! So, they didn't know what to do with me. I had so many odd contradictions, they just didn't know what to think.
Suffice it to say, after 10th grade, I could hardly do school work anymore. My learning style was so different than everyone else's. I wonder if abstract thinking is a problem for Aspies, because after 10th grade, it seemed that everything required intensive abstract thinking. And I just couldn't do it anymore.
has it occurred to you you might have a learning disability batman? I had troubles learning myself when I was in school so I had to be in special ed.
Well sure it did. But you're PDD... I am Asperger's. It's different for me.