Aspies For Freedom

Full Version: Do our Aspie traits make it difficult for us to find well paid work?
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Overall, I think I've been fairly lucky... BA in public relations - but I'm not a "people person." Darn fine strategy and communications person tho...

Ran my own business for five years (typesetting/DTP at the start), then spent three and a half very long years very ably supporting a bunch of management consultants on a project. Rough, but rewarding.

Got a job inside the project company, in an R&D setting (the R&D head decided they needed someone to do "arts and charts," and I took the minor thing, and turned into a communications opportunity), which lasted for about 11 years, basically helping a bunch of PhDs communicate their ideas/concepts/whatever ramblings, until on the third or fourth merger, they moved me out of the R&D group and down to the engineering/cad group ("Hey, you use the same kind of big printers, right? And you need to take a class in Autocad - it'll help your job skills."), where I got given to a manager who had a habit of sneaking up on people, had no idea what my function had been with the R&D folks (and presumably still was), and he desperately wanted numbers he could measure. Then they had still another round of "adapting," and I got pfired.

So, hey, I'm back at it, starting up a company to produce large-format science posters - already got the domain - posterprep.com. Also picked up some other equipment, and I'm learning a bit about some niches of the signage industry. We'll see. Basically, my goal is to run it outta the house, and eventually need to build something to house it. We'll see. I do know that most of the folks I talked with (CEO/Chief Science Officer types who'd also been sacked during merger mania) were highly supportive.

I _really_ liked working in a communication function in a science community. For "attaboys," I'd get tickets to interesting things. When they moved me down to the engineering area, they gave me tickets to truck pulls and tv wrestling. Must be hell being stupid.
One thing to consider is that a lot of us are not "in it for the money." We're not hugely competitive, except maybe against ourselves...
Office politics can stink!  So can a tolerant but workaholic boss who doesn't understand that you are might think of have an outside life.  45 to 60 hours plus weekends and rarely lunch breaks with the only compensation being 1 day off for an entire weekend worked.  Federally unclassified and exempt on salary can be bad.  Office politics has lost me several jobs though only one since knowing I was Aspie as well as ADHD.  The Workaholic Boss accidently helped me get diagnosed.  My family stepped in and pointed out that I'd suffered a breakdown very typical of Aspergers.  Try finding this out in your middle thirties.  I am now back in school trying to get a technical certification since my Master's in Chemistry seemed to be going nowhere.  I want comfortable, rich would be nice but I'd happily take comfortable.
I have a reasonably diversified career; I do several small things which all add up to more than full time work. I am university educated, but really don't use it in my career, at least not in an ostentatious way. Most of what I do comes under the 'self employed' category, and the same is true of the few "successful in the traditional sense" aspergians I know of (I say few because I know few, not because most of those I know are unsuccessful).

I think it's important to identify your strengths (I think I'm right when I say aspergians typically have several very big strengths) and focus on them, do something which will capitalise on them. If most of you are much like me you won't be interested in playing office politics, or you will play extremely fiercely, be extremely successful, rise to the top, look at what you see in the mirror and hate it. Being self employed means that you are the boss, politics are not an issue, or if you have staff, they are much less of an issue and it's something you can much more easily deal with.

If you want to be employed, follow your passion, whatever it is. Become extremely good at whatever it is you love, and when you're one of the best people in that field that people can find, you'll have employers begging you to work for them (and when employers beg, they're willing to offer good pay and conditions). For a variety of reasons I prefer to remain primarily self employed, but I've had some amazing offers over the last couple of years, some of which would lead to me having absolute dream jobs. It's quite an empowering feeling to knock back amazing job offers because you are already doing things which you are even happier with.

About seven years ago I was depressed, had no money, no income, no education or skills to speak of and lived in a car. I clawed my way up by working my guts out in a pathetic minimum wage job in a factory, taking as much overtime as I could get, living in terrible accommodation and not eating properly so that I could afford to save money as rapidly as possible. I then went to university with hopes of finishing up and getting a good job, I supported myself through hobby income and by the time I finished uni I realised that I would be better off turning the hobby business into something on a large scale. Along the way, my passions had lead me to develop skills, knowledge and contacts (mostly from the hobby, but the university education was somewhat related) and I found myself in a strong position to set my career up for a rosey future.

A few years ago I was just as down and depressed as many of you are now. If you're not happy, don't be afraid to do something about it!

Good luck Smile

Max the Bear Wrote:
There is absolutely no question that Aspies are discriminated against both in hiring and promotion. Bosses don't just look at job skills -- there are always plenty of people who can do the job. They look for people they think will "fit in" at the work place, and someone the boss feels socially comfortable with -- and they are usually comfortable with someone like themselves, which means not gay, not black, not Aspie, etc.

Yes, it's very common to see Aspies in a job that is way below their skill/ability level. (Also blacks, gays, women, etc.) And also very common to see white male straight NT's get hired and promoted to high levels even though they'e idiots.


There is no such thing as 'equal opportunities'. It's a very clever lie, designed to make those with disabilities feel validated.

If it was real, I'd have got a job that lasted beyond Christmas long ago. And I'd never have to feel like I must put on this ridiculous façade of normality.

I'm cynical, yes. But what else can I be?

I'm looking for a job (my first real job ever, the only jobs I've had before were a couple of summer jobs many years ago), and I'm having trouble with the application forms... I have some trouble figuring out how certain questions are meant; I am perhaps too honest and definitely too literal. I also have issues with personal references from non-relatives, as I haven't had any friends in the past decade or so. I finally decided to ask my father-in-law to ask some of his friends for that purpose...

Max the Bear Wrote:
When I help my students with career exploration, this is what I tell them:

1. Know what your personal strengths are

2. Choose a job/career that allows you to use those strengths

So what are your strengths?  


Okay, so, would you be willing to help me with career exploration?

Quote:

1.Curiosity
Rank______
You are curious about the world and you strongly desire experience of it. You are flexible about matters that don’t fit your preconceptions. Curious people do not simply tolerate ambiguity but they like it and are intrigued by it. You seek out novelty, and you are rarely bored.

2.Love of learning
Rank +
You love learning new things, whether you are in a class or on your own. You always loved school, reading, museums - anywhere and everywhere there is an opportunity to learn. There are domains of knowledge in which you are the expert, and others value your expertise. You love learning about these domains, even in the absence of any external incentives to do so.

3.Judgment
Rank______
You think things through and examine them from all sides. You do not jump to conclusions, and you rely only on solid evidence to make your decisions. You are able to change your mind. You are very good at sifting information objectively and rationally, in the service of the good for yourself and others.  You do NOT just think in ways that favor and confirm what you already believe.

4.Ingenuity
Rank______
When you are faced with something you want, you are outstanding at finding novel yet appropriate behavior to reach that goal.  You are rarely content with doing something the conventional way. This strength is also called "practical intelligence" or more bluntly common sense or street smarts.

5.Emotional intelligence
Rank______
You are aware of the motives and feelings of others, and of yourself, and you can respond skillfully. You notice differences among others, especially with respect to their moods, temperaments, motivations, and intentions, and then you act upon these distinctions. You also have finely tuned access to your own feelings and the ability to use that knowledge to understand and guide your behavior.

6.Perspective
Rank______
You have a way of looking at the world that makes sense to others and yourself. Others seek you out to draw on your experience, and you are often able to help them solve problems and gain perspective. You have a good sense of what is really important in life.

7.Valor
Rank +
You do not shrink from threat, challenge, pain, or difficulty. Valor is more than bravery during physical threat. It refers as well to intellectual or emotional stances that are unpopular, difficult, or dangerous. The brave person is able to uncouple the emotional and behavioral components of fear, resisting the urge to flee and facing the fearful situation. Fearlessness, boldness, and rashness are not valor; it is facing danger, despite fear, that marks valor.

8.Perseverance
Rank______
You finish what you start. You take on difficult projects and finish them, usually with good cheer and minimal complaint. You do what you say will do and sometimes more, never less. Perseverance does not mean dogged or obsessive pursuit of unattainable goals. Rather you remain flexible, realistic, and not perfectionistic.

9.Integrity
Rank______
You are an honest person, not only always speaking the truth but also living your life in a genuine and authentic way. You are down to earth and without pretense.  You representing your intentions and commitments to others and to yourself in sincere fashion, whether by word or deed.

10.Kindness
Rank______
You are kind and generous to others, and you are never too busy to do a favor. You enjoy doing good deeds for others, even if you do not know them well. Your actions are very often guided by other people’s best interests, even when these override your own immediate wishes and needs.

11.Loving
Rank______
You value close and intimate relations with others. You have deep and sustained feelings for others, who feel the same way about you. This strength is more than the Western notion of romance; it is about very deep ties to several or many people.

12.Citizenship
Rank -
You excel as a member of a group. You are a loyal and dedicated teammate, You always do your share, and you work hard for the success of the group. You value the group goals and purposes even when they differ from your own. You respect those who are rightfully in positions of authority, like teachers or coaches, and you identify with the group.

13.Fairness
Rank______
You do not let your personal feelings bias your decisions about other people. You give everyone a chance. You guided in your day-to-day actions by larger principles of morality. You take the welfare of others, even those you do not know personally, as seriously as your own, and you can easily set aside personal prejudices.

14.Leadership
Rank______
You do a good job organizing activities and seeing to it that they happen. You are a humane and effective leader, attending to getting the group's work at the same time as maintaining good relations among group members. You are additionally humane when you handle intergroup relations  "with malice toward none and charity toward all."

15.Self- control
Rank______
You can easily hold your desires, needs, and impulses in check when it is appropriate. It is not enough to know what is correct; you must also be able to put this knowledge into action. When something bad happens, you can regulate your own emotions. You can repair and neutralize your negative feelings, and generate positive emotions on your own.

16.Prudence
Rank +
You are a careful person. You do not say or do things you might later regret. You wait until all the votes are in before embarking on a course of action. You are far-sighted and deliberative. You are good at resisting impulses about short term goals for the sake of longer term success.

17.Humility
Rank -
You do not seek the spotlight, preferring to let your accomplishments speak for themselves. You do not regard yourself as special, and others recognize and value your modesty. You are unpretentious. You see your own aspirations, victories and defeats as pretty unimportant in the larger scheme of things.

18.Appreciation
Rank______
You stop and smell the roses. You appreciate beauty, excellence, and skill in all domains: nature, the arts, science, and the wide range of abilities that other people possess. You often see or hear things cause you to feel profound feelings of awe and wonder.

19.Gratitude
Rank______
You are aware of the good things that happen to you, and you never take them for granted. You always take the time to express your thanks. Gratitude is an appreciation of someone else's excellence in moral character. We are grateful when people do well by us, but we can also be more generally grateful for good acts and good people. Gratitude can also be directed toward impersonal and nonhuman sources--God, nature, life – but it cannot be directed toward the self.

20.Hope
Rank______
You expect the best in the future, and you plan and work in order to achieve it. Hope, optimism, and future-mindedness are a family of strengths that represent a positive stance toward the future. Expecting that good events will occur, feeling that these will ensue if you try hard, and planning for the future sustain good cheer in the here-and-now and galvanize a goal-directed life.

21.Spirituality
Rank______
You have strong and coherent beliefs about the higher purpose and meaning of the universe. You know where you fit in the larger scheme. Your beliefs shape your actions and are a source of comfort to you. You have an articulated philosophy of life, religious or secular, that locates your being in the larger universe. Life has meaning for you by virtue of attachment to something larger than yourself.

22.Forgiveness
Rank______
You forgive those who have done you wrong. You always give people a second chance. Your guiding principle is mercy and not revenge. Forgiveness represents a set of prosocial changes that occur within an individual who has been offended or hurt by someone else. When people forgive, their motivations and actions regarding the transgressor become more positive (e.g., benevolent, kind, generous) and less negative (e.g., vengeful, avoidant).

23.Humor
Rank______
You like to laugh and bring smiles to other people. You can easily see the light side of life. You are playful and funny.

24.Zest
Rank______
You are a spirited person. You throw yourself body and soul into the activities you undertake. You wake up in the morning looking forward to the day. The passion that you bring to activities is infectious.

A much longer and more accurate version of this test can be taken at:
http://www.authentichappiness.org


That site crashed my browser.

I don't think these self-tests work all that well on Aspies... I mean, I left most of the items blank because part of them was really like me and part really unlike me... I'm having trouble seeing the bigger picture or something, or I think I know what the bigger picture is but I'm not sure. Probably mainly the latter.

Anyway, for now I'm trying to become a truckdriver because it pays well and it doesn't involve dealing with people too much. Also, it was one of the few things I could afford to get schooled in, so I've got my Class A CDL and now just need a job.

I am working in my major field(accounting). I am in the area I am interested in(public accounting) but the pay for now is low. I am working as an independent contractor rather than an employee. Unfortunately Rhode Island is a very punishing state when it comes to the tax burden on employers. It is dead last in its business tax climate and last in job growth. For now, I have no choice but to live with my parents. I have been at my present job for two years now.
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