Aspies For Freedom

Just because some of you folks don't think I have it, doesn't mean I don't have it.

This is a spectrum, developmental disorder.

To my mind that means a mild case may be a worse case, in actuality, with certain people who have learning problems like ADD, and also those who have comorbid OCD features.  I have both of these.

So, I'm unable to do school work at a fast rate, and not to mention, I wall off things that don't agree with my personal ideology.  I am unable to do things as others intend, and I cannot follow rules too well.

I feel I have it.  Anything you people say will not take my personal belief away.  I have also seen many features of AS in a relative on my mother's side.

He's a 75 year old who never moved from his childhood home, stuck to the same routines his whole life, and never married.  He exhibits other features, but since he's old now, I wouldn't notice "stims" anymore.  He clearly also has the mild, high functioning, "invisible" kind of AS.  Not outward enough.  But still there.

I do not intend AS diagnosis to be an "excuse" for me to avoid normal people responsibilities.  I hate those anyway, and suck at them anyway, and only have interest in things I'm interested in.  This is how I am, and that won't change with diagnosis.  Nor do I want or intend to change this.  I would only change this to the extent of becoming independent, and not because someone tells me I don't have AS so I should be "normal."  F**k that crap.

Now that I know have AS, albeit the high functioning "less visible" kind, I know the kinds of strengths I have.

With AS, this is the formula:  Combine strengths with interests and you have capacity for greatness.

How can anyone here have any *doubt* that I have High Functioning AS?  Jesus H. Christ.  Don't be so cold!

Gawd...

Why do I want some sort of label/diagnosis?

Because I want to understand why I have behaved, all of my life, in ways not fully comprehensible to those around me.  Why have I been so neurotic, why have I stuck to the same old routines for years, why have I not been able "glean" ANYTHING from normal social situations--without just repeating things I had learned before and comparing and contrasting to figure out the correct approach?  There's zero social intuition.  I've observed that I learned everything by repetition, and imitation.  This is not something that can be solely explained by ADD.

I'm so certain I have High Functioning AS that I don't need any of you guys to say I don't have it.  Even if you say I do have it, that's not new to me.  Really only someone trained to diagnose AS would be able to tell with me, as it is.

I appear to lack stims, but I repeat.. I *do not* lack obsessions.  Everything must be a certain way with me, down to the last stupid detail, or it doesn't exist.

Why is it that there's some sort of "tendency" in the psychiatric community to avoid talking about high functioning AS, toward certain patients?

I've gleaned that my therapist *knew* I had the traits, but avoided bringing it up for fear it would be an excuse for irresponsible behavior.

It's not.  In a sense, Zed, I want the "thank God" a little bit.  Because I get more understanding into my odd behavior, past and present.

What do you think?

Just took your test:

Agree: 2,4,5,6,7,12,13,16,18,20,22,23,26,33,35,39,42,45,46: 1 point
Disagree: 1,10,11,15,17,25,27,28,29,32,36,37,38,44,47,48: 1 point
Score: 35

I suppose all of this doesn't necessarily mean I deserve, as you say "nappy," or special attention/or fulfilled entitlement, or accepted Peter Pan syndrome.

So then if I'm not looking for the nappy, what am I looking for?

I'm looking for a reason for my "odd way of looking at the world."  And perhaps a reason to feel proud of my gifts--creativity and formal, pedantic, colorful language.

I am actually learning disabled with Math, but at least according to some writings by Temple Grandin, some of us are poor with Math and tend to have other skills, like visualization, instead.  I certainly am deluxe with everything visual, at the least.

I do have stims.  I bounce my leg a lot, if that counts.  I do that both when nervous, or not.  At times I do it, I don't even notice I'm doing it.

Why do I say Asperger's?  Why do I insist on it?  Here:

1.  I've only learned social skills through observation/repetition/imitation

2.  Vivid imagination, detailed "internal visual world"--see Temple Grandin's writings on this

3.  Compulsive need for routine; need for solitude after overwhelming social situations

4.  Compulsive need for sameness/order--as in I don't give a crap about what I wear so long as I know how it feels on my skin.  I've worn some of the same shirts for ten years now !!!  And mostly I only wear these when going out.  It's both comical, and natural inclination.

5.  Stims--I used to have a lot of twitches, but these would change over time. ***  Yes, three asterisks.  Here, see them again below:

*** It should be noted that when I was given Paxil, these "stims" and some OCD tendencies became muted.  When I was going off Paxil, they seemed to come back!  Right now, if it is a stim, it's that I bounce my leg a lot.

6.  Seeing details nobody else notices or pays attention to, and remembering them vividly.  These are stupid details, but I can't learn not to see them.  It's as if I have no choice.  But, I like it that way.  It makes me a good artist.

7.  Awful short-term memory, powerful and intractable long-term memory--I can't even forget the stupidest, most insignificant things.

8.  Obsessions--when I get interested in something, and I combine it with my nightly routine/rituals, I stay within the obsession for as long as I'm interested.  As a kid, for instance, it went from video games/computer games (all inclusive and still an interest) to Lewis Carroll to Sherlock Holmes to Stanley Kubrick, and then back again.  These would also repeat in loops.  I still get loops of obsessions to this day.

9.  Repetive statements/sayings--I also talk about the same problems over and over again, going over every detail, but never coming to any resolve.

10. Hypersensitivity--I get extremely bothered by yelling, even if not directed at me.  I "feel" the person who's being yelled at.  If the yelling is at me, I can't take it.  I have to leave, or cry, or something.

11. Literal-mindedness--if someone tells me something sarcastic meant as a joke or a mild insult, I take it seriously.  e.g. in grade school kids would tell me to "do this" or do that, and I would do it, not knowing why they started laughing after I did it.

I have about 3,000 more examples that seem to connect with certain core features of AS, if you need them.

And lastly, all the issues of ADD, OCD, Oppositional Defiant, the paradox of formal/advanced verbal skills *with* awful reading comprehension, only being able to do things within my narrow interests, poor social understanding, repetitive stubborn routines that make me feel "hurt" when deviated from...

All of these intersect with the criteria listed for Asperger's.  I have clearly found my case to be defined by High Functioning Asperger's both by association, comparing/contrasting with others online (not in this forum), and process of elimination.  I haven't found that ADD alone, or Generalized Anxiety alone, or even together, can explain all this.  But, I haven't been to someone who diagnoses AS, either.

I clearly have a developmental disorder, because everything I've done that ought to be learned through social intuition, has been significantly delayed.  I *lack* social intuition.  Whatever I have learned of it, has been learned through imititating others, mostly.

Social anxiety + ADD = me...?  That's wrong, and if any of you continue to insist that this defines me, then *you're* wrong.

I have not been to a professional to diagnose High Functioning AS yet, but I am certain I have it.  Even if they told me I didn't have it, and my only real issue is ADD + social anxiety, then *they're* wrong.

I want the label so I can understand my strengths, abnormalities, hypersensitivity, need for routine/solitude, and what I can do both with these "special abilities" and with these "special deficits."

I think I've said it all.  If you need more examples of Asperger's traits, or more "stims" or more evidence of those in my family who exhibit these traits, I will be happy to provide it.

Perhaps my current obsession is Asperger's Syndrome.  It's all I talk about/read about now.  But I know I have it.

Has this clarified my situation a little better?

Because I don't see how anxiety + ADD = the whole picture.  I just don't see it.

And you know what?  I know me, better than any of you.  I know what's up.  And I know it indicates AS, better than any other single condition or other PDD.

P-Diddy.  Maybe that's what I have.

And anyone who says my case doesn't look like AS, uncluding you Calista, is also wrong.

Stop looking for a label, start looking at issues?  Well..

That is good advice.  But I also want some kind of label that fits, because all the other labels I have had (ADD, Generalized Anxiety, Dysthymia) DO NOT comprise the whole set of peculiarities, esp. peculiarities involved with the way I learn, and the intractable role that long-term memory plays with my abilities, esp. in writing.

I've noticed I learn by repetition better than anyone else, esp. people who seem neurotypical.

By the same token, I often miss the obvious.

This may be partly ADD, but from what I know (and now I know a lot about AS)... this kind of "rote" learning ability is highly correlated with AS.

As well, I am also a bit *too* enamored with computers.  They're my friend.  People are not my friend, however.

But of course, nobody with AS works in the computer field.  We're all Social Workers, mentors, and courtroom stenographers.

Computers?  Nah...

I came to the Diagnosis forum for a reason.

Right now I want to know why I'm being rejected.  Maybe this is an Aspie-like feature--not trusting anyone.

But I came here to have an opinion if it's more likely that I have an ASD, than if I don't have it.

If you need to know my brother is realizing, after I showed him all the ASD criteria, that he very likely has it.

He also has the stereotyped male traits:
1) takes things apart, puts them back together
2) distracted by "stims"
3) interested in math/science
4) works heavily with computers

I have some of those, but I'm more "arty."  I have heard there are lots of autistic artists, and I would imagine that such people don't fit the "take things apart, put things back together" male stereotype.

Because that's not in their interest.  I sorta thought that Aspies have narrow interests...?

Why is everyone missing the other classic signs of AS, while focusing on certain ones like "stims" and Math/science interest?

I don't get it.

A former high school counselor of mine thinks I have it.  She's seen a lot of psychological issues, and deals with a lot of troubled kids.

I did have to *convince* her by showing her diagnostic lists, but at least now, she *is* convinced.

I've got to fit somewhere....  really, I'm too "odd" to fit in with NTs.

Batman55, even if the other dx's you've had seem inadequate to explain your problems, they might be useful if they qualify you for help at a vocational rehab agency...I don't know whether you have one near you, but it is worth looking into.  At least you might be guided into a job and work environment that you can cope with.

*roots for you*

I'm glad to see you root for me.  What I don't see is why you didn't mention if I seem Aspie or not.

Otherwise, I cheer you on.

BTW have you noticed some of my odd "doggerel-like" formal writing quirks?

I have been told that many Aspies write in an odd, formal way, and begin talking in said manner at an early age.

I was *exactly* like that.  Everyone wanted to know why I had to use big words, when I could have used diminutive ones...

This is all too familiar.  I could write in such an advanced/formal fashion, had a better vocabulary than seemingly everyone in the High School (except for maybe 10 or so gifted kids), was brilliantly creative, but at the same time incredibly un-prolific in schoolwork and even my subject of interest!

For instance, if I was going to craft a piece of creative writing, it would end up being only 3-4 pages and I would take 3-4 hours or more to "make sure" it had all the "details" I wanted it to have.  I would get burned out on the simplest, stupidest tasks in school, for example pasting a dumb collage on a poster.

I had to find "exactly" the right pictures for the collage, match the rules given for the poster *exactly*, or else I couldn't do it.

Then they gave me Paxil, and all of a sudden my odd twitches and my OCD tendencies and social anxiety problems, became muted.  I could get work done faster because I wasn't "stopping" on stupid details as much.

But no drug could ever take Aspie-ness away from me.  Just look at me now.  I've had the crappiest jobs in the world, with the lowest-pay rates, and now I'm not even employed.

I was a clerk for 4 years without moving up to management position, even though they liked me enough that they offered to move me up, several times!  And what did I say?  I said no, because managing people sucks.

And yet, I'm the uber-intellectual with words.  This just doesn't make sense.  Why is a person of my intelligence stuck doing worse than everyone else?  Why is there such a contradiction?

Well if it's not AS then I'm a flea.

I apologize.  Usually I'm quite restrained with my responses, although it seems for some odd reason, I've just been more "hyperactive" the last couple weeks as it is.  Usually I'm not this way.  Although my posts sometimes can be very long.

I didn't mean to say I would use the diagnosis to slack off.  In fact, I don't even want anyone to know (such as relatives) that I have AS, if in fact I do (at this point, there's most certainly *some* kind of PDD that's affecting me.)  Because then that would pigeon-hole me.  Like some Aspies I prefer to be seen as different without providing a good reason for these differences.  I lack social identity, so why get one?

Even before I started reading intensively about AS (actually it has become a complete obsession now) I was aware that being unemployed is not the right path.  It hasn't really been the path I wanted either, but I must honestly say that I developed a problem with substance abuse that clashed with employment--and then that became an intractable routine.  I'm better off now, however.

I am shamed by unemployment now just as much as I was when I didn't know about AS.  Trust me, I don't want a "nappy" excuse, even if it seems I'm asking for it.  Perhaps I just want to be accepted into the AS crowd a little, because I don't fit anywhere else?

I do have interest in sci-fi, but not obsessive at the moment.

To be honest I've fallen out of that fandom stuff.  I'm actually very far from that stereotype--see "Comic Book Guy" in "The Simpsons."  I'm not like that at all.  I am, in so much that I don't have friends, and connect with objects better than people, but the similarity ends there.  I really don't fit that identity.  Comics were a former obsession;  now I'm just interested in self-expression through art.  That's my current obsession.

It's quite odd that although I don't fit the socially assertive neurotypical crowd (although I pretend to as best I can), I *also* don't fit the more tolerant geek crowd.  I haven't observed too many folks like me, who don't fit anywhere.  I lack a social identity.  I'm somewhere between geek and neurotypical, but I'm also not either.

I might fit into a subtype of the geek crowd if I was better at math/computer science or repair, or something.  But I suck *so* bad with those things.  My brother fits that profile a lot better, but he still doesn't want to be seen as either geek or "normal."  I like "normal" more than geek, but clearly, you can see I'm far from normal.

As if you yourself aren't guilty of that.  Don't be snide with me.  I see every angle--even angles that aren't there.

I agree that I was *way* out of line, insisting that my view is the only correct view.  I posted way too many messages in one thread, in a forum not really designed for prolific posters.

I have no explanation for that.  Actually I can think of only one:  the winter has really shut everything down here (I'm in PA) and I can't exercise, or do anything really, besides work in the house.  I know this is about as low as it gets, but by the same token, I wonder if it's a little better than getting a menial job that just gives me another routine, without working to my strengths.

I now realize that I should avoid "multitasking social" jobs, as I've done enough of those, and while a lot of people like me at the jobs, I still get too anxious and frustrated by social difficulties.

I don't enjoy being seen as any kind of geek, nor do I enjoy being seen as completely normal.  I would imagine this is common among some Aspies, especially the more "arty" ones.

Hell, I think Tim Burton is someone every "arty" Aspie should look up to.  I love his movies.  I think that's where the Batman obsession started--from the 1989 blockbuster of the same name.

I apologize.  While sticking to my own views and disputing others is typical of me, I don't usually act like a hyperactive nutter too often.  I think the reason may be that I have no established sleep/wake cycle at the moment, but that's also due to some odd, repetitive rituals that I repeat every night, despite the illogical nature of it.  Well I should admit freely that I am drawn to routine, and sameness.

At times I have acted in such paranoid ways, examining every detail and thinking about what these details might lead to, that some have just thought I was "crazy" and a few folks on Usenet thought I could have a mild form of schizophrenia, possibly a negative function type that sits in the background.  But that doesn't fit, not even remotely.

A counselor/teacher from high school of mine, who empathized with my social difficulties, originally was dismissive of my Asperger's idea.  She thought I merely had a rough form of Social Anxiety, and in addition, she thought Asperger's were not supposed to be self-aware.

On the contrary I am very self-aware and self-conscious, but this only "took over" after I had a paranoid breakdown in 11th grade.  Since then I have been aware of *every* difference between me and normal people.  There's a lot of differences.

It should have been diagnosed in childhood with me.  I was variably ADHD and anxious until 5th grade.  In 5th grade I started to become really aware that I wasn't connecting with people around me well, and then I became the opposite of ADHD.. completely restrained and quiet.  It's an odd transition.  Of course, I'm definitely ADD now, but the behavioural component has vanished.  I actually prefer solitary work to anything else, so ADHD doesn't fit so well as ADD does.

I also noticed you mentioned you didn't have dyspraxia.  I didn't know what that was until about five minutes ago when I read the Wikipedia definition.

It appears to define oddities of fine motor movement, or speech differences.  I actually have some of those to this day.  I still hold a fork and spoon in a really weird way, and was seemingly unable to correct that in childhood.  I also had problems with "s" sounds when I was in grade school, and also intonation, a little.  These have been corrected.

I think the bottom line is I do have some "dyspraxic" things going on.

I am exactly the same way.  It's internal.  A really loud, strange noise tends to bother me, but I don't scream.  I *hated* dances because of the loud music, despite half the people standing right next to blaring speakers.  I hate the idea of hearing loss.  I also hated pep-rallies at school--I couldn't understand why everyone was going wild while I was deeply bothered by it.

What bothers me the most is anyone who yells at me.  I have noticed that normal people take it and react logically, while I have to leave and go somewhere to lash out at myself.  I still can't stand being yelled at, and yet my father did that to me all through childhood.  I am still damaged because of that.

If somebody yells at me these days, I tend to lash out at them.  I don't know how to handle it.  It deeply bothers me.

My posts must have been too long.  I can't figure out why not that many folks responded to them, otherwise.

Maybe this forum isn't really built for long posts?

I'm not that bad, but I do seem to get a *lot* more annoyed by things like fire trucks/ambulances than other people.

I don't know if that means anything, though.  But I will say that I have always had "exceptionally aware" hearing.

I didn't have any delays with cognitive ability, but I did have some mild problems with math and reading comprehension in grade school.   Of course these became more pronounced as I got to high school.

Self-help skills?  Don't know what you mean, exactly.

Adaptive behavior, don't know either.