Aspies For Freedom

Here's what I got on the Aspie quiz:

Your Aspie score: 162
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 39
You are very likely an Aspie
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I have a therapist who thinks I'm "too high functioning," too capable, and too intelligent to warrant any kind of special attention, or diagnosis.

I *appear* to seem normal, as well as well-spoken (great with words and details, and analytical to all infinity).  But it's very clear that I have intractable anxiety problems, recurrent social phobia, and compulsive need to stick to familiar things/people/situations, and also non-functional (repetitive) routines.

I am not doing well by any measure right now.  I am 25 and still living at home, and have been unemployed for a while.  I tried college once, and failed due to social anxiety problems.

It should be noted that I am just figuring out I have AS now.  I was never diagnosed or even implicated, once.

I have had ongoing learning difficulties in school, less so in English (except I have major problems with reading at a fast rate, and also reading comprehension) and more so in Math (can't pay attention--the material is so boring and seemingly opaque to me.)

Even in my subject of interest (Art, creative writing) I get pissed off when the teacher makes me do something that sucks!  For example if my creative writing teacher shifted focus from prose to poetry, I wouldn't do the poetry because I *sucked* at it!  I am only good with prose.

Now my world is turning in on me as people around me are thinking I'm "immature to the bone" because I can't handle everyday, daily responsibilities that most people deal with.  That I refuse to grow up.  And my family is puzzled why I refuse to quit repetitive, non-functional routines.  And why I refuse to take practical advice.

My therapist thinks an Asperger's diagnosis would give me more reasons to "stay immature."  He has also said I'm "wearing diapers" because of my seemingly low maturity.  Any surprise I stopped going to him, after that session?

I am a very intelligent, analytical person, but I am frequently overwhelmed, time and time again, in social situations.  It seems I am  most comfortable in 1-on-1 or 2-on-2 conversations with people I trust, otherwise I begin self-loathing and withdraw from socializing.

I don't have the "crazy" Asperger's symptoms like yelling when there's a loud noise (like a school bell), or any other of the serious behavioural abnormalities.  I've learned to be highly restrained behaviorally, to the point where I look like a formal, proper adult, despite not being even 1/10th as responsible as a proper adult should be.

I am full of contradictions, and have been, my entire life.

Now I am beginning a manic episode of self-loathing, once again, where I have almost no friends and just sleep all the time and stick to odd routines like staying up all night, without stopping, to work on  bizarre, artistic drawings that probably won't get me anywhere.

I'm getting allegations of immaturity from everyone.  I've had menial jobs before, but not jobs that used my strengths.  I was overwhelmed by social issues at the jobs, but learned to cope by repetition.

I think I have a bad case of AS.  Regardless, everyone sees me as an immature, destructive person.  A shame on the family.

I am unsure of whether I should consider myself fully immature, or someone who doesn't know how to cope with AS.  The immature argument would stand if one considers the posts on this forum by "bad AS sufferers" who are working hard in college.

But, I've never been diagnosed.  I've slipped through the cracks and now I'm not functioning on any kind of decent level.

This is an odd case.  I hope you guys don't all agree on the immaturity issue.  I feel I have AS, albeit high functioning.  But AS nonetheless.

Any thoughts?

I don't think you are immature, but then I am usually a bad judge of what people are really like! Based on what you say maybe you have AS and maybe you don't. I have a full-time well paid job and have been since 18. I still live with my parents because I don't have a partner and don't want to live alone. It doesn't make me any less mature than my collegue who has a baby and girlfriend and he is younger than me. Our paths through life are different. That is really all I can say. I had my first 'breakdown' when I was 20 in Feb 1997. It was the first time I'd done the same thing for work 12 months. The reality of routine hit me quite hard. It seems to do that every five years then passes. Unless I've missed something you mention no physical problems so thats good. I can't help you really beyong saying you sound bored and need motivation suited to your skills, like me.

I'd say it sounds more like a classic case of ADD more than anything. Although ADD can be and often is comorbid with Asperger's, I didn't really pick up any real signs of "Aspieness" from you.

In your post I don't remember reading anything about stims, which are unusual, repetitive movements from which Aspies derive comfort or pleasure and generally cannot be "restrained" (such as constant foot-tapping, rocking back and forth, hand-flapping, obsessively picking scabs, etc).

There was also no mention of any particular obsessions of yours, which is a characteristic of all Aspies. For example, I'm pretty much obsessed with freshwater fish (particularly those native to California), and I spend pretty much most of my time studying them and reading about them.

I have five fish tanks right now (though I would have many more if possible), and I held a steady job at a local aquarium store for two years when I was in high school. Now that I am in college, I am majoring in animal biology and I hope to specialize in ichthyology. I can just never get enough of freshwater fish. Also, I really like snakes as well (I have seven snakes).

Additonally, social anxiety isn't necessarily an indication of Asperger's or autism. I know there are a few people on here with social anxiety, but there are also a lot who don't. With austism, the discomfort in social situations is generally a result of just not being able to effectively comprehend the social situations, rather than being afraid of them. I don't have any social anxiety at all... I just don't understand the typical "unwritten rules" of social behavior tha comes naturally to others, nor do I feel any desire to "learn" these rules. They don't make any sense to me, so I just don't give *** about them.

Anyway, that's how I feel about this topic. You don't really seem Aspie to me, but I'm definitely no psychologist. I am pretty certain, however, that you have ADD and that this ADD is the likely source of the difficulties you are experiencing. Unfortunately, I don't really have any advice to offer you... I was diagnosed with ADD when I was in middle school but I don't think I really have it.

I used to be told I was immature and selfish quite a bit...  I am convinced that while my behavior would look that way to people who didn't get me, that it was also a label that some people used to manipulate me when I wouldn't do what they wanted me to do.

At the same time, I worked hard to try to NOT be selfish and to control my emotions - meaning hiding them or asking God to help me not react.

Like you, I'm an artist and writer and I had social anxiety in school, but not to the point where it kept me from doing well.  I often used writing music to get my emotions out. When I went to work in a stressful place that did not match my skills, I would often cry on the job.

When I am doing something I enjoy and am good at it's not as much of a problem, but there are still stresses, and I still have to figure out how to handle them.

So I think I totally get what you're trying to say here... Without my faith in Jesus and my support system I wouldn't have made it through college or have come so far in my ability to interact socially.

I scored 42 on this test.

The fact that your topic title was a question regarding the situation ("New here--immaturity, or AS?") means that you are inviting people to state their opinions. I happen to think you don't have Asperger's, so I stated that. Just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Stimming is an important part of Asperger's (and all autism) and is a person is generally required to have at least one significant stim in order to gain an official diagnosis. It seems that your main issues are with social anxiety/difficulties, which are usually associated with ADD as well. You definitely don't seem neurotypical to me, bit I still have my doubts about whether you truly have Asperger's or not.

Batman55, I hope you haven't given up on working.  If you're worried about your perceived maturity level, you can easily find a workplace with co-workers who will show you the REAL meaning of immature.  One summer, I worked graveyard shift as a janitor in a grocery story, alongside a bunch of stock boys who did crazy stuff like wrestle in the break room.  As long as there's somebody annoying the boss worse than you possibly could, you should do fine.  Work at a place like that so that you'll at least be doing SOMETHING, until you find the kind of job that interests you.

I wouldn't worry so much about finding a neat category for your concerns, as I would about finding a solution that fits you.

With a reference to Batman in your username, am I correct to assume you have interest in the genres of comics, sci-fi, fantasy, etc.?  The reason I'm asking is because there is a huge subculture of people interested in that stuff, and as far as mental issues go, they've seen it all and are usually willing to tolerate it.  I got my big social break back in 1994 by joining a club that's part of that subculture.  They still see me as a quiet, shy type, but I was finally able to make reliable and lasting friendships, and grow socially.

Batman 55, I'm not rejecting you. Like you, I am more of an "arty" aspie. We aren't all good at maths. I was only good at figures, not all the theory stuff as it meant nothing to me.

Wow, Batman -- if you want to add another diagnosis to your long, long list, maybe you should consider "paranoid." Why are going ballistic? Nobody's attacking you.

You asked what people thought and then when they told you, you started shaking your fist and screaming at people for rejecting you and refusing to diagnose you the way you want them to. WTF? Natalie wasn't wasn't trying to take your self-diagnosis away from you, she was just saying a lot of what you wrote sounds like ADHD -- and just for the record, she's right. A lot of it does. No one here can diagnose you. But everybody can offer opinions -- which is what you asked for.

It strikes me as rather amusing that you keep carrying on about "I am ASPIE, damn it! I don't care if everybody says I'm not!!!" Have you met Matt (mrt####) yet? He's carrying on about "I am NOT aspie! I don't care if everybody says I am!" Maybe you guys could swap diagnoses and then you could both calm down.

I think you need a different therapist, and i suspect your current therapist would second the motion.

"There's just been some simple misunderstandings and miscommunications.

Because we're Aspie.  That's what we do."

Lulu, you are so smart and funny -- i love your posts.

I certainly hope you don't go off on people in person like you're doing here.

I don't know about some of the others, but I wasn't rejecting you.  Your Aspie Quiz score looks alot more definitive than mine.  (Of course, I answered strictly in the present tense, after years of adjusting.  I should have used both past and present tense.)

It sounds like your first therapist with his "nappy" comment was holding back afraid he would be giving you excuses to slack off.  I'd say go get a second opinion, and then get on with life.  But if you do get a positive dx, don't even think about using that as an excuse for slacking, because then you'll just piss off the others who are proud of their AS and want to demonstrate they can not only take care of themselves but achieve greatness.  (I can imagine a day when they'll have to make it suitable for framing, to go on the wall next to your diplomas.  In all of my 34 years, this is the only dx I've ever heard of that people actually hope they'll get.)

Also, you didn't answer my question about whether your username implies interest in comics, sci-fi, etc.  So, does it imply such an interest?  Just so you know, the subculture I was referring to is known as "fandom".  Even though it's practically built on tolerance, it still has its limits and you still have to be ready to make at least a halfway-decent first impression.  

It looks like you've gone without friends for far too long.  Like it or not, you need friends (NT's included) if you want to make the connections you'll need for your art to get noticed.  Whoever gives you your second opinion, I hope you'll let them work with you on this.

Don't worry, there are lots of people out there who can't stand people, so maybe you can make some new misanthropic friends and then y'all can sit around talking about how people suck.

It may seem I'm talking a little harsh now, but I think that's doing you a favor.  Because you won't last a week in any group of people if you keep going off and attacking everything anyone has to say.

You might find that your social anxieties never go away. Therapists are generally only thinking about getting people to be more sociable if, like me, you don't really want that but instead just some more helpful coping strategies therapy will not work because there is nothing to fix. I like my personality, it is the wider world that is sometimes troubled by me. I didn't know what AS was until 10 weeks ago, I was lucky that my GP told me I had it and completely understood my personality type. She is now helping me persue offical diagnosis. It might help to just try to settle into youself more and realise that you are different and may never 'fit in'. And be happier with that.

This is probably no help and thats another thing to think about. I can only really think about myself, I can't really see others perspectives only from my own view, so everything I do or say is self- focused.

You sound very much like you sould avoid a menial job and persue something that suits your strenght and your posts do demonstrate a high degree of determination.

I don't like being shouted at. I find that it makes me concentrate on the noise they are making as opposed to the words they are shouting. I find this confusing and makes me anxious.

Hmm, I don't know - some people have had really long posts before.

I think getting diagnosed as an adult is so much more difficult because of the co-morbid conditions that often present at well. We often get depressed as we are all too acutely aware that we are different and struggle with things others seemingly take for granted: eg. social interactions.

Children are not often self-aware at an early age.

We also have to contend with professionals who have preconceived notions as to how Aspergers and HFA "should" present because they might not have had training regarding the latest ideas about these condtions.

What's worse is some of them don't even want to know about anything that challenges their ideas: for example, that only children get autism, or only males.

I think I've been getting worse with sudden loud noises as now I tend to say "oh ***!" and cover my ears or just cover my ears and start rocking.