Aspies For Freedom

Hi rossco -

My advice would be: if you're confused about what she wants from you in a relationship, maybe you shoud just ask her.  Just like that.  I certainly can't speak for all women (esp. the NTs), but I know I'd appreciate it if a guy was that direct with me, instead of hinting around or playing games hoping I'd "get it".

Is she NT?  If she is, does she know you're Aspie?  If she does, you could explain to her that because of this, you're incapable of understanding "hints" and she has to tell you directly if she needs or wants something from you.  (This applies to the relationship in general, not only any sexual aspect....)  

If she doesn't know you're Aspie, maybe you should tell her. If she's someone you like enough to be considering sleeping with, I hope she's someone you could trust enough to tell.  She'll figure out that you're not in the NT run eventually - better she understand that you're Aspie, rather than start thinking you're rude or weird.

Just a thought...
Meega

I don't understand how people who have been married and fathered children can say they have problems reading women?

Do you think Rossco is attractive then or am I missing something?

Yes I get what you mean!

haha rocco your attention getting powers don't work on those of us with eh....

Maybe you should tell her about the AS, in a way that hints at but doesn't give away that you're not sure what to make of her? That way the art of seduction is preserved.

"I am hopeless at reading women. "

ALL men are hopeless at reading women.

Maybe you're a blokey bloke after all!  ;wink

Yeah, I'm a woman and I don't even understand women! Most NT women seem to be the exact opposite of Aspies, in my experience. In this respect, I'm glad I'm not a lesbian.

First, coming from an NT girl, I'd say you did the right thing the first night by not sleeping with her that night. Not sleeping with her when she wanted you to is a WAAAYYY better mistake than trying to make a move she wasn't ready for / didn't want. Also, definitely tell her about being an Aspie. And don't expect her to be thrilled at first, give her time to get used to the idea and learn more about it, and then before long it won't matter and she'll learn how she should adjust if necessary.
Unfortunately, I would tend to disagree with using "I don't know how to read you." That can be misinterpreted and make her think that she is especially difficult. Just like for you, straightforward is usually better. If you prefer to try to work it in that way, say instead "I'm not good at reading people." or something slightly more general (without saying "you"), so it doesn't sound like it's a problem you have specifically with her.
Final thought, trust me, everyone has trouble reading things for sure when it comes to romance. When I met my Aspie guy (about 2-3 yrs ago), we ended up cuddling together at my place, talking about everything under the sun like you did. I waited for a lull, and with my head laying on his chest and his arm around me, I finally got up the courage and said, "umm...so...I'm guessing...you kinda like me?"
That's all it took. We've been together ever since.

I've felt the same.  March 20 of this year I petitioned Jesus Christ to die.  I am a non-ritualist Protestant (attending a small American Baptist church) and I believe suicide (or rejecting Jesus as savior) is the sin that damns you.  

Here's the difference:
1.  The religion
2.  The character my mother gave me.  Perseverance.  I could have been dead any number of dozen times without it.  
3.  Maybe not really wanting to die.  But suffering sucks.

I think a parent needs to teach perseverance as though life depends on it.  It has probably saved my life at least a hundred times, kept me from trying suicide.

Sometimes I think she wants a perfect relationship in an imperfect world.  

About 10 years back I learned the hard way that the correct answer to "when are you going to propose to me" is (when I am ready to no matter what happens to you or me).

She probably wanted to be as good as her girlfriends.  Certainly photographed the proposal and publicized it in her friendship circle.  When I figured out that it was a bad idea for two occupationally discriminated twentysomethings to get married (I was one year out of grad school), she did not like that.

She escalated the crisis to the point where I could leave or go through with the (imminent) wedding.  From Social Psychology 503 I think that was a desperate act, power issue in a relationship.

But in grad school I worked with state (WV) efforts to combat domestic violence.  

Although http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php?n...roovyDruid might suggest that many women employ evasive techniques to get and keep guys, there is only one answer when you have to  leave.

Go.

Some years later (about four) she wrote for the last time, "You were a very good friend."  

Which seems to translate as "I'm sorry I pushed you into the wrong decision and then pushed you away when you told me I was wrong.  You treated me as best as you possibly could and in no uncertain terms I really hated to lose you, but now you are lost.  Good bye."

In 2005 I had an opportunity to give the correct answer to yet another woman who is bipolar.  She proposed, and after careful consideration, after a few weeks, I shot her down.  We have few common interests, and she has an even more bitter cup to drink than my first girlfriend.

What a shame, to be unable to admit that one made a mistake, that one shares the blame, to escalate a crisis to the point where the other has no choice (with due respect to womankind) but to go.  

She might have finished college by now.  Back then she was living in a group home and had no employment or assets.   No car, whether or not she had the license.

Since then I have become professionally employed, live independently with a cat for company, and not only drive at will up to 400 miles, but fly coast to coast almost at will.  And since I got my passport, maybe internationally soon.  Maybe without my parents living, but I still have aunts, uncles, and cousins.  

I lost my first girlfriend.  And one of my friends.

She lost not just a boyfriend, but sadly, a good friend, one who does travel at will out of friendship.  The traveling part seems to be rare these days.

The kind of exchanges that happen in the NT mating rituals is why I'm glad I'm not in such a relationship.

I have the advantage of being in an alternative lifestyle where things like sex, preferences of activites, time, location, etc are bluntly negotiated, up front, in detail, without shame.  After a few years of being used to saying to someone "Ohhh you want to do (activity)?  Okay, thats good with me but I want to use this and then can we do (a variation)?"  Or even "Here is a written checklist of what I like. Lets compare with your own checklist."  The next morning, its not just "Was it good for you?". It's a step by step objective review of what worked and what didnt and how each part felt.   This system  works so much better for me, I wonder how average NTs ever manage at all in their muddled way of communicating in hints and riddles.

Another thing: she is adopted.  An only child.

The only thing she had in abundance at least 10 years ago was Jesus, and I recall she loved Him very much, singing often.  

I wish she would have the things I do: a career, an income, friends, relatives, freedom of mobility, saving for retirement.  She might have some, maybe all, but I doubt it, with the discrimination against mental illness.

Perhaps it was harder on her.  I have other things to distract me.
Think of your life like the bulkheads of a ship.  Career is distinct from a love affair, both are distinct from friends, and so on.  I have only one flooded compartment: a love affair.  The idea is to isolate that problem.

I don't have complete freedom to have a romantic existence.  That person does not exist.  I do not know when or even if he will.

I do have the freedom to play up what I do have.  Not long ago Cambridge Who's Who "found" me.  I had some reservations about the sales tactics (another forum we need), but after careful reflection I decided that even at the total cost of almost $820 I wanted my career life on some sort of permanent record.

Maybe it is worth the money at this point.  If it means playing up what I have, an excellent career, as a compensatory strategy to deal with what we know is not fair, and cannot be fair: getting a fair trial in a relationship.

At least I tried in my last relationship.  I split after a year: she has incompatible interests.  A fair trial.  She asked for an appeal.  I gave her one, but still found her incompatible.  Aside from the bitter cup she has to swallow: her bipolar fails to respond to lithium therapy.  Kind of like my clinical depression needing adjusted levels of various antidepressants: so far, first Prozac, then Welbutrin, then Welbutrin and Luvox, and the maximum human dose of Welbutrin plus some Lexapro.

I practice what I preach.  I am a Protestant Christian.  Race doesn't matter: I am just as likely to date African American as Caucasian, even one Korean, maybe a Latina one day, because even after 20 years I am still nearly fluent in Spanish.  Weight doesn't matter: I conveniently overlooked my last girlfriend's figure.  I don't date non-Christians, two women found that out, but I honestly say I am losing patience with Jesus and the Holy Spirit.  Most importantly, no sex before marriage, because you can buy it, but you can't buy love, and frankly I don't want to waste my first, either, on someone moving on.
That is what that Biblical rule is for, emotional protection.  People who aren't in it for a relationship won't bother you.  I used to fear diseases and pregnancy most, but today, I fear being used and thrown away pretty much.  Just like a great many women.

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Lesson:  It is important not to let one disappointment sink your ship.  My brother was an excellent computer programmer at Claritas.  But temporarily ruined, I think community alienation issues.  They asked him to leave.  In six months, he became an excellent computer programmer again, somewhere else.  Just a six month hiccup in a 16.5 year period of computer programming, starting on his 18th birthday.  I think he is Asperger.  In college I had the same thing, a romantic accident devoid of malice.  I happened to convert to her religion for the right reasons later that had nothing to do with her at all, and finally after she married the right guy she explained that she was not acting willfully, she was coerced by the previous boyfriend, whom I am glad decided to leave her.  But between April of one year and June of the next, I had a nuclear sort of winter, kind of like the dust cloud an asteroid would make for a year.  I was emotionally crippled and by extension academically crippled.  Then I was still upset until I became a Christian.  And even then I still didn't know the truth for two years six months.











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That is what all my girlfriends have had in common: seemingly being only children, no known siblings at all.  

I would add, on deeper reflection, she made a mistake too.  She was more eager at friendship than my first girlfriend was for marriage.  

In speaking of the sociology of religion, love bombing is the practice of conversion but with the added massive infusion of friendship which in my case I found to be a very confusing tidal wave or tsunami.

On second thought I am probably forgiven for jumping to the conclusion that she liked me in ways simple friends do not
especially as I had little experience with simple friends for several years.

I do not recommend the practice of love bombing.  It can be extremely damaging if it misleads a person about one's intentions.

I wouldn't be writing about it except I am concerned that I am not attracting potential mates out of a lack of confidence.  Certainly I haven't looked at dating quite the same way since then.

Given the very powerful impact of your self confidence on what other people think about you, I fear that love bombing can be every bit as damaging as good old fashioned verbal and physical abuse and rejection.

I would also add, re my experience

1.  No wonder I was upset, angry for a reason, but being angry at surrounding individuals, excessive and I am sorry for that
2.  I did convert eventually, but because being bitterly mad at Christians was a step in the right direction (many people never make a religion relevant to them at all), until a separate group of Christians 10 to 20 years older (and also Christians longer) knew how to extinguish human anger and hatred with Jesus loving through them
3.  I am very sorry that other people judge you by your confidence without knowing your experiences.  If a person short of confidence can be passed over for a job, a date, or a relationship, that to me would constitute punishing someone who hasn't yet seen how much decency and fair play there can be in the world.