Aspies For Freedom

Hello,

I wanted to congratulate you all on the Times article.  But I do think you need to realize that there is a price and many children will pay dearly.    Do you think that the government in Canada gave a toot about your agenda?  They simply used Michelle and other HFA folks as pawns to make sure they don't have to pay for the one program that has shown improvement for these kids.  Parents will continue to use ABA, all that was accomplished is that it will simply be the wealthy kids who receive much needed intervention, and the poor will be left with nothing but Speech & O/T.  

I hope that this was stated for dramatic purposes, because surely everyone close to this issue must know that adversives are ABSOLUTELY NOT used in modern ABA. What parent in their right mind would pay someone to come to their home to harm their child?!!??  Please save the scare tactics and stick to the facts.

I don't expect to change minds, but will share with you that we did ABA with our son.  He is not cured, nor were we ever led to believe that he would be.  In fact, the only people who I hear mentioning the word cure are folks who try to discredit it.  ABA taught our child how to learn. Once he learned to communicate, he understood that it wasn't neccessary to meltdown in order to have his needs met.  He also seemed to feel much more at ease, and some minor issues such as Echolalia faded away without us even targeting them.  

For the most part, our son is just a happy little boy, that will always be Autistic.   He has quirks that make him very interesting, and we expect that he always will.  It was never our goal to alleviate these types of behaviors, but to teach him coping skills such as telling us something is too loud instead of slapping himself in the face.  Some children won't experience the success we did, but there are a tremendous amount who will benefit greatly.

For our son, ABA change the quality of his life, and it breaks my heart to know that there are parents out there who will simply have to hope that their child will somehow just naturally improve.  Just out of curiosity, have you all seen a modern ABA session?  If so, I can't understand how you folks could be against sitting down at a table and  teaching a child how to communicate and behave through positive reinforcement.   That is what ABA is about.

Thanks for letting me share

I think that the testimony given in the Canada Supreme Court case certainly proves this theory wrong.

Stella,

Thank you for posting.  I probably missed it, but was there some mention that is was an ABA program?  I must admit that I am wrong, and should have said that there were no adversives in our program, or in any of the parents I personally know that do ABA.  The thought of someone doing such a thing to an Autistic child is not only sickening, but also unecessary.     I think it also bears saying that we can find parents and doctors who abuse children, autistic or not.  That does not make ABA a bad thing, but the criminals who do it under the guise of ABA are bad people.

Stella,

This is a little much for me to decipher, but I did a page search, and unless I messed up, I still don't see any mention that this is an ABA program in this journal????  I also visited their web-site, and this is a residential facility not an ABA program like we were discussing in reference to the article in the Times, or in the Supreme court case.  I also checked their web-site, (as far as I can find) they are doing a computer based discrete trial, but I see no mention of electro shocks being administered during ABA sessions. Doesn't mean it isn't happening.  :evil:  

Do you have some other examples relating to the typical ABA scenerio, which is sessions done in the childs home?

Sorry,

Posted before I saw your reply.  I would still be interested in knowing of more scenerios in typical ABA sessions.  I do not mean to belittle the horror of what is going on at that center, but again, this is not typically how ABA is administered, it is done at home.  In my opinion, there are probably very few residential facilities that do ABA, in comparison to the thousands of "home programs" that most people participate in, so if this is the only example I would submit that ABA is not the problem, it is the people.  And what in the hell are the parents thinking anyway!!!!!

After researching ABA and reading info from websites such as this that discussed adversives, we were not going to do it if it meant hurting our child.  But then I spoke with real people who were actually doing ABA, and they all said they did not use adversives.  When we interviewed our consultant, I asked her about adversives and she told me in no uncertain terms that adversives would not be used.  Since you have a firm belief that adversives are being used, surely you can give more than one example.   :roll:  Another issue is does the actions of what I consider to be criminals mean that well run programs have no legitimate value?

I am very aware of Michelle's achievements and have read a great deal of her articles.  I have much respect (not agreement) for her views and her hard work not as an autistic but as a person period.  That does not change the fact that though she may have considered her actions to be important to your cause, she was not called to be a witness to further the Aspie agenda.  She was being used as a tool to illustrate why ABA is not necessary.  I find it to be very sad that the testimony of someone who is HFA is going to be used to deny services to those who may not be so fortunate.

I am not Canadian either, I just care about what happens to these children.

Well,

I believe we'll have to call a draw.  You are giving me theory, and I am looking for examples of parents using adversives in in-home programs.  To be honest, I couldn't bear to read through all of those articles, but upon scanning I do notice that the vast majority are from the 70's or earlier.  I also don't believe that they were all pertaining to ABA.  I'm not saying electro shocks are not being used on earth, I am saying that people are not using adversives in ABA in home programs.  I obviously can't speak for residential facilities, I know little about them other than I would never consider putting my son in one.  

There really no end to this discussion, because you can always find areas where there is risk for abuse whether it's ABA or Speech Therapy for that matter, and I can always come back and say there were no adversives used in my program or anyone else's that I know for that matter.

Thank you for taking the time and energy to post.  I did check out the website you referenced, and believe that the two incidences you reported were the only ones out of the tons of e-mail, that were not positive.  Bottom line, one incidence like this is too many, although I suspect  this to be a rare situation.  

I understand your points, and just have one final question.  What do you say to parents such as myself, who do not use adversives and have been able to see sustainable and dramatic improvements in my childs quality of life?

[quote="Amy"]This is a quote from the last link-

"[i]". But note what Ms. Weintraub worries about: "quirks" such as her son wanting to be Mickey Mouse for Halloween, that somebody might not want to date him, and that he might be "different."  I will state the obvious: Ms. Weintraub’s concerns are not concerns about her son and his well-being at all. They are statements about her own insecurities and fears. All the rest is window-dressing and rationalization.]

I am familiar with this article, but also am aware of Ms. Weintrab's upset that a great deal of information was left out.  This writer decided to use this silly example, but the real point of this piece should have been that her child didn't give a darn about being anybody for Halloween prior to ABA.  

I fear we shall go round and round with this argument, because from my point of view, our son was able to make tremendous strides WITHOUT any adversives and is living life instead of just reacting to it.   We have reached and understanding that he will always have quirks, but what is important is that he is able to function in the world that he lives in, as apposed to a fantasy world where everyone is unconditionally accepting of one another.  I hope that this fantasy world will one day exist, but in the meantime, I plan to prepare our son for real life challenges that he will have to deal with in order to be a functioning member of society.  

If nothing else, I believe that ABA is an extreamly useful tool to use in teaching a child with behavioral and developmental delays how to learn.  I appreciate and understand your views.  Thank you for taking the time to share them.

I guess if you are a business relying on consumers to fill your pockets buying silly costumes for an equally silly ritual of dressing as someone/something else and knocking on doors to beg for candy (most of which autistic children won't even touch), the "prior ABA child" would be quite an unwanted alarming profile.

My grandson recently went through this ritual because the school he attends, thought it would be cute/fun for his pre-school.  He "went through the motions" of parading around in a costume, gathering candy and when it was time to go home, he couldn't peal the costume off fast enough (I'm sure it was quite uncomfortable to his sensitive skin) and dropped the bag of candy at the door (never to be touched by him again).  Yeah, I'm sure he got alot out of that experience.

Please define "Living Life" for me.  If the idea of living life is to pretend to be someone you are not so that you can make your family happy, your teachers happy and have many friends that only see the person you are trying to be/become, if this is living life then why did I feel so empty inside?  Why did I feel like a fake?  Everyone else around me was happy enough to see me this way....but I was depressed because I knew that my ACT of normalcy was the REAL Fantasy World!

You see, I don't give a crap if I am accepted by the neurotypicals as I'm sure my son could care less about this too.  My grandson doesn't seem (so far) to be concerned that he is different from most, either.  It's only when people make us feel Broken or Unacceptable that we feel bad.  I don't care if neurotypicals ever Accept us, but I seriously wish they would quit Hurting us by trying to make us over in Their Image.

AHEM!  Page 982 in the Webster Dictionary.

Nor"mal*cy (?), n. The quality, state, or fact of being normal; as, the point of normalcy.

If Webster says it's a word....who am I to argue?

Nemidaelius!  Is this some kind of attempt on your behalf to get me to stray from my original subject while also getting me to lighten up a bit?  Well, If so,.....it's working   :lol:    LOL you're so stubborn and delightful at the same time.  I like your style.

The silly thing about this is that plenty of kids are not popular at high school and don't get asked on dates. Just because autistic kids are treated with ABA doesn't automatically mean they will be accepted by all.

I think if a person has one or two good friends and is not generally hated, then they are doing fine. There is plenty of time for dating when they are older as too much dating distracts from schoolwork anyway.

As for the Mickey Mouse business, so what? Every other Halloween I've heard of, the kids wore a variety of costumes. It seems as if the mother had a lot of insecurities of her own.

Alision, I've got just one comment for the parent whose quote appeared
in your post: WAHOS. I know they mean well but why don't they fight for more acceptance for their son instead of expecting him to do all the "adjusting" to a society with often dysfunctional values.