Aspies For Freedom

What medication would he have been taking and why?

I've only know about Aspergers for a month and I find it very positive for me. I cannot really see any reason why Aspergers would make someone more prone to murder!

I have read anything that indicates that Asperger's makes people more prone to violent behavior. Odgren's attorney is probably going to use it as a defense anyway though, because most people automatically think that autism = ***.

I think that if it can be proved that the kid that got stabbed constantly harrassed Odgren and caused him significant mental anguish, his conviction should be changed to voluntary manslaughter rather than first-degree murder. I agree that this kid was probably just defending himself from a bully.

That first sentence should read, "I haven't read anything..."

Most people would consider any form of autism to be a "fairly serious psychological diagnosis". I doubt he has anything more than Asperger's, ADHD, depression, and/or anxiety. Anything more serious than that would have warranted at least some form of mentioning in the article, like "Odgren has shown tendencies toward violent behavior in the past" or something like that.

I've had so many Aspie students over the years (I teach high school) and have seen so much bullying and harrassment, I can't be surprised when victims retaliate. We don't know the precise circumstances and history in this case, but I'm reminded of the slogan among victimized gays back in the 80's: "Queers Bash Back." When schools and society fail to deal with bullies, there will be incidents of retaliatory over-reactions from victims. It's hard for me to sympathize with the bullies. (If, in fact that was the situation in this case.)

I believe the kid was bullied and here is why...

Brianna Hogge, also a junior at L-S, said Odgren was “always asking how to get away with killing people and talking about how to make acid to make bombs. He was a really creepy kid.”

My middle school and high school life was filled with bullying, one of the ways people got away with some of the things they did to me was tell the staff that "I had started it" or say things like "that kid looks scary I think he is planning an attack on the school" of course my 8th grade year colombine happend so I was searched daily for weapons then released to the wolves. after colombine I was constanly harassed by the school and it students.

eventually (since when I got beat up I was the only one who got punished for it) I started to fight back, I got sent to an alternatve school for bashing some kids head into his own car and almost splitting his skull.

it is hard for me to believe the kid wasnt bullied (he looks geeky in the picture, prime target for bullying) I grew up in the Atlanta Suburbs, the incident took place in a Bosten suburb. it is hard for me to believe that the cultures in metro-area suburbs is much differnt.

and I dare anyone to take me on this one.

same here.

There is something I don't understand, not about this particular case but about a pattern I've been seeing on this website.  So many people have said how they were bullied and beaten up because they have AS, and I don't get why that is happening to people because I have the same affliction but I have no experiences even remotely similar to being physically abused by other students.  What they do to me is give me the cold shoulder and avoid me, if they don't like me.  No one ever physically harmed me.  So I'm wondering, to all those people here who have been physically bullied because of your disability, what have you been doing to make people want to beat you up?  Maybe AS affects me in different ways than it affects other people or something, I don't know, but I've never done things that caused people to want to hurt me.  And in my opinion, judging from my personal experiences, it's pretty easy to avoid fights.  Hell, it's way more difficult to find them than to avoid them.  Anyone in the high school I went to, well, I would imagine the only way I could ever persuade someone to hit me would be to hit them first.  Most people don't want to start fights.  They want to avoid them.

" I have the same affliction but I have no experiences even remotely similar to being physically abused by other students."

Good for you, Liz. But I have been teaching for 30 years and I can tell you that the bullying of Aspies goes on constantly. Aspie girls don't get the physical bullying as much as the boys, but girls have their own cruel ways of social bullying that are just as mean and destructive.

(PS -- if you consider yourself "afflicted" then the emotional abuse has already been done to you.)

"what have you been doing to make people want to beat you up?" 

That is such a monsterously ******-up thing to say I don't know how to respond. What did the blacks do to get themselves lynched? What do gays do to get themselves bashed? What do women do to get themselves raped? What do children do to get themselves abused? What did the Jews do to get themelves rounded up and sent to the death camps?

"I've never done things that caused people to want to hurt me."

So this is the first time?

Max the Bear--

Geez.  Why don't you calm down?  You think I said ****** up stuff?  All I said is I don't understand.  Sorry if that's so ****** up.

When I said 'afflicted,' I meant with AS.

You did clear a few things up for me, though, even if it was in a rather rude manner.  Thanks for that part.

And I should clarify something.  Maybe people have wanted to hurt me in the past, but not enought to actually do so.  So, unless your fist comes out of my computer screen and hits me in the face, this isn't really a first time for anything.

LizHater said:
" Why don't you calm down?"

That's pretty funny coming from you, Liz. By your own standards and with your own underlining, what you should be asking yourself is "What did I say that made Max want to beat me up?" Let me know when you figure out the answer.

"You think I said ****** up stuff?"

Yes, I absolutely do. Because you absolutely did. As I understnd AFF, much of the belief is that we should stop blaming Aspies for the ****** up way that NT's react to them. Your post put the blame directly on the kids who get harrassed and abused for being Aspie.


"All I said is I don't understand."

No, that is not "all you said." Don't be silly. Go back and read your post and reaccquaint yourself with reality. Take responsibility for your own words.





  

"Then I thought about it a little while and considered how I sometimes express a point badly or offend unintentionally. So taking this into account, maybe you just did the same. Yeah you ****** up, yeah you caused offense, but this might not have been your aim so maybe I'll reserve judgement for the moment."

Yeah, I think that's what happened.  I definitely was not aiming to cause offense.  My only aim was to find answers, because I was curious.  Maybe I accidentally gave my post the impression of being accusatory.  Maybe the underlining had something to do with that.  I wasn't underlining the sentence to make it sound angry or accusatory.  Here is the reason for the underlining: I was frustrated from unsatiated curiosity, because I've asked this question before on AFF (but in a more subtle and polite way) and I never got any direct answers.  I really wanted to know why physical bullying was happening to other aspies and not to me.  I wanted to find out what the difference was.  How am I acting different from other aspies, to the point where they are getting beat up and I'm not?

I think you & Max aren't offended by my actual question, but by the way I phrased it.  If I went back and re-phrased my question, it would be like "What have you been doing to attract the attention of bullies?"

Because I am definitely NOT saying it's the aspie's fault.  It's not.  It's the bully's fault.  Violence is unacceptable.  Basically, what I'm saying is this: bullies pick out a scapegoat for a reason.  I wanted to know what that reason is.

Judging from the responses of you and Max, I'm coming to the conclusion that bullied aspie boys probably don't act that different than me, but they're boys.  Therefore they get beat up.  Girls don't beat each other up as much, so I guess I lucked out in that sense.

"All I said is I don't understand."

No, that is not "all you said." Don't be silly. Go back and read your post and reaccquaint yourself with reality. Take responsibility for your own words.

*sigh*  No, that is not literally "all I said," but that was the main point of my whole paragraph.

"bullies pick out a scapegoat for a reason.  I wanted to know what that reason is."

You've come a long way from your initial post.

http://www.sciammind.com/article.cfm?art...414B7F0000

Christina Salmivalli of Finland is one of the great experts on the psychology of bullying., and has looked at characteristics of victims. See page 41 of this excellent on-line resource: http://www.youthhealth.ie/fileadmin/user...final_copy

Here are other interesting findings:

Children and youth who are bullied are more likely to be neglected (neither liked nor disliked) by peers or rejected (highly disliked) by peers than other children (Nabuzoka & Smith, 1993; Shuster, 1999).

Passive victims are most common. These children tend to be more submissive, insecure, and initiate fewer prosocial behaviors. If threatened, they live in fear, restrict their activities, and do not readily defend themselves.

Provocative victims, also called victim-bullies, are less common. They tend to be highly aggressive, have deficient or deviant interpretations of social situations, and frequently exhibit conduct problems. Many come from adverse family backgrounds or have neuro-developmental disorders (e.g., ADHD, learning disabilities) associated with learning/information-processing deficits.

Differences that set children and youth apart from their peers increase their likelihood of being bullied (Espelage, Bosworth, & Simon, 2000; Hawker & Boulton, 2000; Smith & Brain, 2000). What is acceptable in one school is not in another. Groups of differences that may be problematic are:

Personality, behavioral, and social differences. These include traits such as being difficult to deal with, "acting weird," odd mannerisms, and in general, fewer prosocial behaviors.

Obviously different physical features. These include traits such as short stature, obesity, or physical deformities associated with chronic illness.

A cultural background different from the school majority. Examples include coming from a family of differing socioeconomic status from the majority of peers or having parents who are "different" (e.g., gay or lesbian, disabled, marital status differences, job status differences).

School performance outside that of group norms. This includes grades received, class participation, and homework completion when compared to peers.