Aspies For Freedom

Can you learn empathy?

I have been recieving alot of complaints recently about my apparant complete lack of empathy. I suppose they are valid complaints since I find it next to impossible to care about anything that doesn't affect me personally. But it has been suggested to me that I try to learn empathy. I thought empathy was an automatic natural responce and one that I lack, and so it would be impossible to learn.

Could somebody please clarify this for me.

I too have been accused of this. It for me is like sarcasm. I know in theory what sarcasm is but on a practical level usually don't get it. I can't give advice on this. I do try and think about how things would feel like for me in a certain situation, but if you have no real point of reference...well let's just say Dr Spock says "What your feeling is highly illogical"

Thank you for the advice. To be honest I have never even really considered that other people even had emotions apart from really strong ones like anger until I learned about AS an a potential lack of empathy. But it is not just things like on a one to one level at which I lack empathy. For example, my mum was talking about the tsunami of a few years past and how shocked and saddened by it she was. It didn't involve her or anybody she knew, why should she feel anything? I cannot understand it.

Bob Bobson, are you capable of imagining yourself in the situations of others? (I know some people cannot do this)
If so, put yourself in the shoes of a person whose entire family, entire life, their house, their whole nieghborhood, had been wiped out by that tsunami.  Try to imagine how you would feel if that had happened to you.  That is esentially what your mom is doing, though she does it automatically and on an almost instinctive level.

I cannot really imagine such a thing happening and I am told this can be quite distressing to other people. There are too many varibles in such a situation or things I may not be aware of, and I don't like to try things if there is a high probability of getting it incorrect. I can only imagine myself in the shoes of others in simple situations with simple emotional outcomes, because I was never taught about the complexities of emotion and I find such things very difficult to understand.

Mate I am fairly unempathetic and this has been something that I, like you, am very aware of. I like much of my autistic tendencies mask it. I am very loving and caring to those that I care about. That is not the same thing though. An example is the two towers incident was something I thought was wrong and abborent. I didn't feel emotionally connected to it though. Even the Bali bombing which affected Aussies. I will say though there are certain things I do feel empathetic about and some scenes in some movies, Rocky, I am Sam, Lighthorsemen are examples. I also have better chance if it is something that has in some way personally affected me in whatever way.
I don't think it is an art that can be learnt. I think if you are aware of it and (this is probably going to sound pretty awful) make what you consider is the right noises at the right time, you will at least not show you have no personal empathetic attachment to what is being said.
I still get caught out. My ex, after my diagnosis, was at least a little relieved in one respect. She thought that I was purposely being mean and callous in situations that I was just not understanding the need or having the ability to empathetically respond as neuro-typical people would.

Woah there! Let's take a big step back.
Can anyone ever really know whether you experience empathy? Conversely, can you be sure you don't? Maybe you do, but your definition of empathy is more narrow.
And maybe you have a different way of showing your empathy with others.

Actions are more important than emotions, anyway.

Guys I know I've posted twice already and I apologise about posting a third time but it "opens up a can of worms" as the expression goes with each post.

I am a VERY caring and loving man. I am very sensitive..., yet due to my autism I am very unempathetic. As 7'oclock said how does this compute?
I had a researcher guy contacting me on a different forum this is how I tried to explain it to him: Bad anology (not my strong point but best I can do.)


In situations like this I feel uncomfortable and anxious - I just want to sit away from everyone. As an analogy (I am not good at this so bear with me) imagine going to a funeral with a brand new girlfriend. The funeral being for a relative of the girlfriend and this being your introduction to the family.
Kind of weird, Lack of emotional connection, everyone else upset over a person they felt strongly for but you don't, Lack of belonging and you feel you are unneccessary or imposing. You feel bad for the people but don't feel the same.

A person in the above isn't nasty, callous, mean or anything ellse but might be justifiable (even by NT standards) an outsider to the emotional context "needed" for the social convention of the funeral. Only with us it is so much more common and broad ranging.

This was prompted by him letting me know honestly how he felt about that horrible twin towers incident. It was not very insightful as I had witnessed the same reactions from everyone (NT's) around me but this was my recollection of the incident. (NB: Australian Male: Bloke)

I was in Student Accomadation at Uiversity. I saw the planes crashing into the tower on the communal television. There was 3 other people watching. I was listening to the audio as much as watching what was happening.
I wasn't saying a lot (hard to listen and watch without getting distracted and miss anything) and neither was anyone else. This was probably good. We watched it for ages and finally when the commercials came on. The other guys were shocked(?) in that they were quieter than normal, angry but not vocalising it well, and irrespective of the fact that they had spent ages watching exactly what I had, fairly uninformed. I helped here and started answering their questions about what had happened.
They did start saying derogatory things about terrorists, Arabs and the like and I naturally agreed that it was horrible. Being a bloke though it was ok not showing I wasn't "moved" as blokes tend to respect(?) making a show of being tough or "emotionally in control". I was however anxious not to be flippant or too opinionated or what have you. Even though there wasn't loud voices, it was very emotionally tense, which unnerves me and puts me really "on guard".
From there on I did my best to find out everything about the attacks. Who were responsible? Why? How? What? and I also watched the tv to learn what I could and also to watch the people and site damage. I was interested in all aspects on it.
I only said one comment I regretted which may have been a little more appropriate when the incident wasn't so fresh in the minds of everyone. I can't remember what it was but it wasn't flippant, just inappropriate. I felt bad that I had upset people.

When people feel bad I want to support them and comfort them and try my best to do this. I am very lucky that I am very "touchy feely" and not "tactile defensive". I still don't feel emotional connectiveness but in most cases NT's are caught up in their "suffering" to not notice my lack of empathy. (For all NT's out there I am in no way mocking or having a go at you - please understand context).  

GUYS: one thing this researcher guy said which is important. We feel things about our "lack of empathy". Guilt, remorse, awkwardness, anxiety, etc. If an NT doesn't appreciate or understand this - is that lack of empathy on their part?

ICTMS agree! I mask empathy and find the experience is nerve racking. If I can make "the right noises" at the right times the right way and not say anything inappropriate I can get away with it. Yes you are spot on the mark about the donkey anology!

ArthurDent Yes! I believe that like sarcasm or metephors, etc. Even if, like me, your autistic brain is "weak" in recognising them, get them when you get them. WE can try to philosophically dismember the whole "do you know what you know" but if an autistic person can rationally (does an autistic person know another way) say I felt this emotion to this situation and I believe....you could say they have felt empathy. I'd believe them anyhow!

Graewlyn and Bob the fact that you shoe empathy to personal thing or things that you have experience in (even if it is movies or songs) is an autistic trait. It is personal not impersonal which empathy is. I too feel this occassionally. Good film for this is "LIGHTHORSEMEN". or "SECONDHAND LIONS" . But at the end of the day, these instances at least we get a glimpse. I think this is a good thing. My autistic boy doesn;t yet know he is autistic but at 6 or 7, he cried one day and said that he was broken. I am not overly emotional but I am not afraid to say I *** near cried with him. I knew how he felt. Hope for me then? LOL

Anyhow long post lots to think about.

Every time I watch a movie, whether it is happy or sad, I can always relate to the characters. Especially in kid movies like Shrek, Cars, or Lion King. Also, I nearly cried at the ending of a movie about the female Tejano singer, Selena. I can't beleive a manager like Yolanda would shoot somebody on stage. Selena's family cried, hugged each other, and said goodbye to her. It must have been their most tragic moment. I also was able to empathize when Selena was trying to convince her father to let her marry her boyfriend. I wouldn't like it if I had to argue with my parents about who I should love. It's my man, it's my choice. We are not in the royal time where the king and queen can decide who will be their daughter's groom.

Oddly, I don't feel as empathetic in real life situations. Such as if a student in my class lost her brother in a car accident. Yet I always try to at least pretend i feel it. I would pass a "Sorry to hear that" card with roses on it, and let people sign it. Though I don't think I would exactly want a girly rose card if I had such a tragedy in my family. Yet other people seem to find these very heatrwarming.

Glad I'm not the only one who felt nothing about the tsunami.  Yes, I understand that it was terrible for the people whom it did affect, but I simply did not feel sorrow at the news, any more than I did at the news of September 11.  I am actually very insightful about other people's feelings and behavior, I am known among family and friends for "psychoanalyzing" people, and I so often come up with alternate explanations for other people's bad behavior that I am told, "Don't stick up for them!"  But all this is intellectual understanding; I just don't feel what others feel, at least not anywhere nearly as intensely as they do, especially in the area of grief.  When I hear sad news, I usually put my hand to my heart and say, "Oh no," or something like that, and my facial expression is (probably) "appropriate," because I do feel sadness for a moment.  However, the moment quickly passes.  I have a very short "grief span," as if there were a blank space in my emotional range.  For years I have felt "selfish" because of this, or felt I was lacking in humanity, but all the judgmental things I or anyone else might say about me cannot make me feel what I do not feel.    

Yep I was extremely interested with September 11 in terms of finding out what I could. I didn't feel grief or what have you. I knew it was wrong but how was that supposed to have effected me?

I also agree you can be very caring and loving without being empathetic.

Word, yes. It really annoys me when someone starts spouting off about the "innate goodness, purity and innocence" of children; it makes me wonder if they've ever actually met a child. I don't mind kids, but they are really quite amoral, wantonly cruel little...critters...

It often takes years and I found I really didn't learn much until after I had children of my own. Even now, I am really sorry about some of the things I said to my mum and other people when I was young. I never understood at the time that they could have come across as selfish and uncaring.

Now this is a good explanation and it also lays to rest the preconception that Aspies don't feel empathy.

It is actually a good question.  I don't know the anwer.

Try this.  Take any given situation. Look at what is happening to them. Now pretend the same thing is happening to you. (can you pretend?)  If you can register what that would feel like for you... what you feel.... That is the basis of empathy.

                                                                           Mom of Hrick