Aspies For Freedom

[quote=Anthony19

3. Life is terrible. I am not depressed, I just see the truth that others perfer to look away from.

[/quote]

being depressed is seeing reality

philcommander Wrote:

Im looking for some possible cohesion in the aspie communities beliefs. (is it a respectable term? aspies communities? how about the autistic communities?)
I'm trying to gain understanding of your community. I feel if I gain an understanding I will be able to avoid inulting and treating it in a disrespectful way.
What are the FIVE (do as many as ya want!) things you would love to be able to pound into our heads?
Thanks for taking the time.
Phil

mainly leave us alone if you dont like us ..most of us are fine with that

I agree with the first poster... this idea would make up into a phenomenal article. Anyone interested ? PM me for additional information.

Ethel Wrote:

To clarify further: what I have given up on (or will after this post) is trying to reason with Aspies with this "master race" mentality.

1.  Not all Aspies are particularly smart.  To say Aspies are special because of their high intelligence is to say that any Aspie WITHOUT high intelligence is a failure.
2.  Some Aspies are smart in ways that can't be measured, or are no practical use - yeah, so I can recite every Dangermouse episode in order of original transmission.  Big deal.
3.  Aspies who bleat about discrimination on the basis of neurotype, and then turn around and say all NT people are stupid/shallow/inferior, are hypocrites.

Quote:

For those of us who are better than dumb bullies, we need to nuture that, and if necessary for self esteem, self-segregate, maybe have a little enclave in the school for smart kids only, no dumb bullies allowed.

To have an "enclave" for smart kids only is to say that children of average or lower intelligence don't deserve to be protected from bullying, and that bullying is OK if the perpetrator is highly intelligent, or an Aspie. It also increases the us/them divide which is in my experience the source of a lot of bullying in the first place. And it's defeatist - we can't stop bullying, so let's just make a place for the victims to run away to and hide.

whether you are aspie or nt , life is what life is , noone`s is better or worse , it just is

SheWhoCan'tThinkOfAUsername Wrote:

Quote:

1Big Grinon't say 'Hello' if you are only makeing yourself do it, or just passing by. It is used to introduce one's self, not say at the drop of a hat for no reason. Thus, please don't get angry, NTs, if we don't say "Hi' because we need a reason to do so.

Just earlier today, a boy who goes to my school and says he has AS came up to me and called my name in an urgent tone, and all he had to say was hi...

must like you

Maybe that is the real underlying point, that you are all individuals, each with your own unique talents and gifts, each worthwhile in their own right just because you are you.

Arctoris Wrote:

Anthony1989 Wrote:

4. I am afraid/disgusted of/with procreation.

I don't want to hear about it, period. It turns people into objects and is rather unpleasant to me. It also brings people into the world forcefully. I don't believe this planet is suited for anymore lives to be brought into it. The ratio of suffering is far too great in my eyes. All in all, it's just bad news to me. You can like it all you want, but keep it to yourself please.

Sex is an important aspect of humanity, and for that matter all species that exhibit sexual dimorphism. Therefore, sex is everywhere and will always be there as long as we retain our sexual dimorphism.

There's no other way to be brought into the world but forcibly. No human has ever willingly entered the world. No human ever said, "Yes, I want to be born." There is no choice in the matter. The choice of life is whether to continue, no whether to start.

People must continue to be born. We cannot just lay down and die. Humanity must continue.

earth is one of the places our souls come to they can grow . I imagine if there is a contract that we go by to get the chance to come here,in it we have to accept the conditions to which we are born ( mental , physical , place of birth) . So if we are born on the spectrum , that is the condition we must accept . It is our souls job or obligation to learn from this and grow..our souls probably only get the chance to come to this universe once or twice , so we must seize the moment and grow from it . this is what we have been given to work with so we must use it to make the world a better place for our fellow humans . In that way our soul advances....soooo we must be born . There 65 billion souls there are only 6.5 billion of us here

Batman55 Wrote:

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Ah, I see - that makes more sense. I was intervening on Ethels behalf, but you're correct that Batmans post was out of line.

It was out of line, but I felt the point behind it... that this Aspiecentric stuff is ruinous for those who don't fit certain stereotypes... I feel has merit.

I suppose GuessWho's "righteousness" arises from a lot of bullying and I guess that justifies it, but still, I feel it was my right to say that this Aspiecentric stuff--no matter who is saying it, or what perspective they come from--is just not that great. We should be making the spectrum more inclusive, and not less. A way to do this is to combat some of the stereotypes.

Do you at least agree with that?

Batman... and anyone else who feels this way.

Would you consider doing me a favor by going to Janet's "how to do Autism" thread and posting more about this there.... or here if you prefer. It would be helpful to know not just what helps people do autism better but also what hinders them from doing it better. Individual limitations is understandably one, but there have been other outside forces which limit people,help create a poor self concept and defeatist attitude. You frequently post about feeling bad about yourself and your self worth. What is it that others have done in your life that has added to that. People can learn equally well about what to do by being told what NOT to do.

One thing you seem to be saying here is Do NOT assume, that just because I am AS it means I have some unique talent or hyperability. Sometimes it just means having to struggle harder at things, a lot of things. In which case we should at very least give you credit for the struggle.

outsideL00kinN Wrote:

Pakrat Wrote:

The only thing is, not all aspies are smart. If there is to be a group away from the bullies, it shouldn't just be limited to the really brainy kids.

Right.

An oasis from bullies group is a nice idea, but is unworkable as an organized entity in practical reality for many reasons. And really, how many Aspies are there going to be at one school anyway? I think I might have known two or three the whole time I went to school. I don't know if they were smart.

Just to clarify, I wasn't very brainy myself. I was an "A" student in many subjects that a lot of students found difficult - Math, Biology, Chemistry. I got Cs and Ds in Foreign Languages and PE, though.

I even managed to get an F in the "easiest" class there was (according to most students): typing, or "keyboarding" nowadays. I have no internal visual representation of the keyboard. If I don't look at it, I have to find the keys "verbally". To find "Y", I have to think, "right pointy finger up one, left one." That slows me down a lot when I'm also reading what I have to type off of a page - it's like having two conversations at once. (Headache City! Nooooooo!) I know where the keys are, I just can't picture them. Looking back and forth is faster and easier (it gets rid of the two conversation problem), but that gets an "F" in typing class.

Anyway, I wouldn't have been invited into a "brainy" group either. In fact, one manifestation of a similar kind of group, Chess Club, threw me out. Success in chess has high positive correlation with the ability to play ahead: the further you can play ahead, the greater your chance of success (on average). Unfortunately, my neurology does not support the visualization option, and auditory encoding (talking your way through moves in your head) is only good for about two moves at best. Translation: I really suck at chess, but not because I don't know how to play.

The first computer chess program I had worked by looking ahead. In "expert" mode, it would run through all possible moves and pick the one most likely to lead to a win. In "intermediate" mode, you could limit it to two minutes of look-ahead time. In "lose" mode, it would not look ahead at all, but would take the highest point value move, or the move which would not result in the loss of a piece. I didn't know it then, but this was how I played the game. Out of 100 games, the results were: 1 win, 6 losses, and 93 stalemates. The toss of a coin, via the law of averages (aka, "chance"), would have produced a better record than that!

Lucie1 Wrote:

Just because I struggle and appear slow with my words doesn't mean I am dumb or a ***.
I believe it is important for people to know - that under this struggle lies intelligence. I don't mean a superior intelligence - I simply mean an equal ''intelligence".

Absolutely. I identify 100%.

LOL that is exactly how I play chess....in one match I only had my king left............ it still took him 14 moves to capture me

Breeze Wrote:

Batman55 Wrote:

Someone in another thread raised the idea that NTs who are great at Math must have similar neural wiring to autistics.  There is no solid proof to support this idea, however, and I personally feel that it's complete bunk.

After all, the majority of engineers, scientists, math teachers, etc, are NT.  Gifted NT, but NT nonetheless.

You can have a gifted AS who excels in all things literary but totally sucks at Math, but that does not make them any "less autistic."  I know plenty of such individuals on AFF.  And you can have a gifted NT who doesn't much care for the arts and humanities but is passionate about math and science, and that does not make them "autistic-like."

Please, can we cut the cord on the "Math is the autistic way" statement?

Cut the cord, Batman Smile I'm not one for stereotypes. There are those on here that think NTs are stupid. I think that being on the National Honor Society in high school and being in the top 5 in my class might say otherwise so I'm getting rather annoyed by some people. Not you Smile

ATM: I hope that nothing I have stated ever contributed to this impression on your part.  My parents are both NT, and, though a little nuts sometimes, are among the most intelligent people I know.  Love you, mom! Smile   I hold the NT's who are my friends in the highest esteem.  As for Guess Who, I think that we should try to interpret what people say in the best of light, particularly when they say that they are sorry for a comment.  I suspect that some of you are more upset with him because of his views on other matters than this one.  You should be honest about that.

To continue, I believe that Aspies vary.  And, the one adult Aspie friend that I have had for many years is very knowledgeable in geography, history, comparative religions, and many areas.  He is not particularly good at Mathematics or sciences other than biology.  He does, however, possess a terrific memory.  He often questions his ability to process information, and repeatedly asks questions about his own interpretations.  I have tried to get him to make his own connections, trust his own insights, and to believe in himself.  I hope my efforts have an effect, since he is a good man and deserves the best.

Let me say that Mathematics does not always come easy for me.  I have sometimes made the dumbest of errors.  In particular, I had extreme difficulty with Linear Algebra because it deviates from number sense.  Until I UNDERSTOOD what a transformation is, I did not really get it.  Most NT's just kind'a seemed to be able to do the problems, and I suspect that other Aspies as well.  I still do not quite understand what an Eigenvalue or an Eigenvector actually ARE.  I believe that they have to do with n-dimensional space and ratios, but the Linear Algebra textbooks are very bad at explaining concepts, at least in English.  Number theory, by contrast, is much easier for me.  Differential equations are cool.  It depends on the area, my friends.  And, it depends on how much sleep/caffeine I have had! Big Grin

Teaching is an art, not a science.  That is why some Aspies who are not as socially geared may have difficulty teaching Math, even if they are good at it.  I am social, and verbal, so I can connect with Aspie and NT students alike.  (Other categories will take a little work, but hopefully I will get there.)  I can connect with students personally.  That is the key to being an effective Mathematics teacher on the High School and College levels.  One must connect with people as well as with concepts.  I cannot do so by being an NT, because I am not an NT.  One must be oneself.  That is the art of teaching.  It is an art as well as a science.

All the best.

Batman55 Wrote:

GuessWho Wrote:

What if I was not a computer Aspie and my dad said, your brother is a computer whiz, you're an Aspie, be a computer whiz?

Believe it or not, GuessWho--that's what I wanted for myself from a young age.  My brother was learning how to fix computers and eventually got into programming languages, fairly successful at it.  I was trying to learn from him, but nothing--hardly a single thing--"sunk in."  It was just not working as I wanted it to.

Still, I was interested in programming, and started fooling around with the TI-82 Basic language for many hours at a time.  But then I realized it was taking me about 10x the amount of time to learn as it would for the average person.  And I could hardly do the math, and overall, things would take forever.  Eventually I knew it was not for me, and no matter how hard I tried, the Math inadequacy and other issues (short-term memory deficit especially) would keep me from doing it.

I've always been artistic/creatively-inclined and never had much interest in Math, as it is.  So, just like you have different NTs with different interests/talents, you have different AS people with different interests/talents.

ATM: Care to teach me hacking? Cool Just kidding...

All the best, and let us be gentle to one another or I'll sick e^x on you!

EvilZakkie Wrote:

Ethel Wrote:

So what's WIRED magazine when it's at home, anyway?

Doctor Who Magazine once ran a thing on Aspergers, on the basis that a lot of obsessive-fan types have Aspie tendenciese. But that doesn't mean you have to be a Who fan to be Aspie, any more than you have to be a computer programmer to be Aspie. So can we just drop the *** stereotypes, please?

I'm perfectly confident that we could go through this forum and pick ten random Aspie members, and find the percentage of computer programmers, maths nerds and males is much lower than some random magazine article would lead you to believe.

I volunteer to be Random Person 1: female, offical DX, NOT a programmer, NOT a maths nerd.

Just wanted to point out that the earlier figures Guess Who quoted were entirely made up - the WIRED article didn't mention any figures.

I've seen the actual figure quoted in an earlier thread - around 10% of aspies display exceptional mathematic or scientific skills. It's a much higher percentage than the average population, but at the same time, it means the stereotype doesn't work 90% of the time.

so are we to gather from this that Guess Who misquotes alot

B"H

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I have but one thing to really say.  I believe that we are all very unique, and should be.  There are no two human beings the same, or the world would be incomplete somehow.  For myself, I am good with mathematics, but not so much with computers.  A lot of you would consider things that I struggle with in the computer realm to be very basic.  I am good with science, but not so much with getting my...uh...bottom, let's say, out of a paper bag.  I am also not good with languages, at least so far.  I am good with history, having gotten my degree in it.

Let me tell you about my story, just a little bit.  I was originally given a diagnosis other than Asperger, a while ago.  However, part of the diagnosis was based on the fact that there were two Standard deviation differences between one aspect of my intelligence and another.  I was given a weird kind of IQ test, one that I frankly think now was somewhat fraudulent.  I think that the psychologist who gave me the test was probably self-interested somehow, although I can't prove that.

The diagnosis turned out to be less than accurate.  However, I was recently diagnosed with "Asperger," a term I consider problematic for certain reasons (how I wish old Doctor Asperger had chosen his political affiliations wisely!).  As I understand Asperger, it too can be diagnosed with the "two standard deviations difference" test, or roughly 30 IQ points difference between the more theoretical aspects of one's intelligence and the more practical aspects of one's intelligence.

I believe that the original modified IQ test might have been basically accurate, even if the conditions might have been set up to exaggerate the discrepancy to the "two standard deviations mark".  Maybe the difference is 20 points, or something like that. The point is there *IS* a difference between my theoretical intelligence and certain other areas in which I have profound deficiencies.  Frankly, I am not even sure about all of this "high functioning" business sometimes.  And yet, there are certain gifts that have come with all of this, gifts that I would not trade in for "normalcy" even if I could.

I can factor license plates in to prime numbers pretty well.  I have gotten good at it.  I do a little victory jig when I get Sphenic Numbers.  For instance, one address was 1246 **** Road, and I got 2, 7, 89.  My heart leapt!  Why do I do this?  Well...do I really have to answer?  However, other things are more difficult.  Sometimes simple things are very difficult.

So, can we generalize here?  And, more poignantly, should we allow low self-esteem to be a point of attack against others?  We need to understand that we are less of a unified community and more of an amalgamation of different types of people who have one thing in common, a certain deviation, not so much from "society" as within ourselves.  That is a split that only we can make whole, not by conforming to the world, but by finding wholeness within ourselves.  I call for a moratorium on all comparisons with others, even being "equal."  I think that it would be best.

Thank you.  All the best.

A True Monotheist Wrote:

B"H

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I have but one thing to really say.  I believe that we are all very unique, and should be.  There are no two human beings the same, or the world would be incomplete somehow.  For myself, I am good with mathematics, but not so much with computers.  A lot of you would consider things that I struggle with in the computer realm to be very basic.  I am good with science, but not so much with getting my...uh...bottom, let's say, out of a paper bag.  I am also not good with languages, at least so far.  I am good with history, having gotten my degree in it.

Let me tell you about my story, just a little bit.  I was originally given a diagnosis other than Asperger, a while ago.  However, part of the diagnosis was based on the fact that there were two Standard deviation differences between one aspect of my intelligence and another.  I was given a weird kind of IQ test, one that I frankly think now was somewhat fraudulent.  I think that the psychologist who gave me the test was probably self-interested somehow, although I can't prove that.

The diagnosis turned out to be less than accurate.  However, I was recently diagnosed with "Asperger," a term I consider problematic for certain reasons (how I wish old Doctor Asperger had chosen his political affiliations wisely!).  As I understand Asperger, it too can be diagnosed with the "two standard deviations difference" test, or roughly 30 IQ points difference between the more theoretical aspects of one's intelligence and the more practical aspects of one's intelligence.

I believe that the original modified IQ test might have been basically accurate, even if the conditions might have been set up to exaggerate the discrepancy to the "two standard deviations mark".  Maybe the difference is 20 points, or something like that. The point is there *IS* a difference between my theoretical intelligence and certain other areas in which I have profound deficiencies.  Frankly, I am not even sure about all of this "high functioning" business sometimes.  And yet, there are certain gifts that have come with all of this, gifts that I would not trade in for "normalcy" even if I could.

I can factor license plates in to prime numbers pretty well.  I have gotten good at it.  I do a little victory jig when I get Sphenic Numbers.  For instance, one address was 1246 **** Road, and I got 2, 7, 89.  My heart leapt!  Why do I do this?  Well...do I really have to answer?  However, other things are more difficult.  Sometimes simple things are very difficult.

So, can we generalize here?  And, more poignantly, should we allow low self-esteem to be a point of attack against others?  We need to understand that we are less of a unified community and more of an amalgamation of different types of people who have one thing in common, a certain deviation, not so much from "society" as within ourselves.  That is a split that only we can make whole, not by conforming to the world, but by finding wholeness within ourselves.  I call for a moratorium on all comparisons with others, even being "equal."  I think that it would be best.

Thank you.  All the best.

I agree with what you have said.I would also like to add that , yes amongst us aspies there are math whizs and people with musical prowness beyond compare , and also all the other higher intelligence things .Please remember that in the NT world there are just as many genious types and none of them are on the spectrum...being smart is a human condition.....

"Your talents are truly extraordinary if you are able to find all the prime numbers in licence plates at car parks and address labels. Really, I'm not making fun."

ATM: Thank you very much. I truly appreciate the thought. It is, however, as you say, practice. And, I have made mathematical errors, to be sure, that I have had to correct.

I appreciate your kind words. My original thought still stands, however. Yes, there are comparisons with others. However, they should not be *PRIMARY* in our own minds. Our primary concern is that we fulfill our own life mission. The license plate business is fun, but it is not my life's mission.

All the best.

skyblue1

skyblue1

MomofHrick

skyblue1

skyblue1

MomofHrick

skyblue1

MomofHrick

skyblue1

A True Monotheist

A True Monotheist

skyblue1

A True Monotheist

skyblue1

A True Monotheist