09-22-2006, 07:54 AM
09-22-2006, 08:49 PM
(Is equally appauled by Jason's comment, but, nuff said).
Anyway, I saw this article on Sky News and was dismayed they tried paint it that he did this BECAUSE he's an Aspie, and that it was a mitigating circumstance.
Personally I think Aspergers should've been left out of it, Aspergers, Autistic or NT - It was a perfect example of rage against what happened - you don't have to be Aspergers to do that; majority of revenge murders I'd even daresay are done by NT's
Anyway, I saw this article on Sky News and was dismayed they tried paint it that he did this BECAUSE he's an Aspie, and that it was a mitigating circumstance.
Personally I think Aspergers should've been left out of it, Aspergers, Autistic or NT - It was a perfect example of rage against what happened - you don't have to be Aspergers to do that; majority of revenge murders I'd even daresay are done by NT's
09-23-2006, 03:33 AM
Yes, these kinds of things do not help our cause one bit. :cry:
09-23-2006, 10:06 AM
Noctivagus Wrote:
As far as I can see, the Judge and 'experts' saw his 'Autism' as mitigating the crime. This is one time that the diagnosis (after the fact) has been used by the legal team, believed by the Judge, and, of course, reported in the press.
This time, it does not appear to be the press playing things up.
This time, it does not appear to be the press playing things up.
Well, what I mean is that by them saying "His Aspergers made him act out and murder someone", the message they're sending out is "Aspergers sufferers may stab you to death without warning, they can't help it though".
Which is similar to how schizophrenia was mistakenly portrayed for years (And led to people stepping very carefully around them)
09-25-2006, 02:19 AM
It's not even revenge, it's escalation.
That's why gang's end up in wars all the time. One guy "disrespects" another guy, he in "revenge" beats him up, his victim's friends then in "revenge" gang beat him, before you know it, someone ends up dead.
That's not the right way to solve anything, and it only gets you "respect" from other people who buy into the concept;and that respect only lasts as long as you can keep escalating it, eventually they - or you - miss a step, and end up on the recieving end of someone elses "revenge". THAT is why I think you'll find most Aspies who get bullied don't fight back, because if you fight back the only way you can win, is keep winning for as long as you're in the situation or you'll get hurt ten times worse than if you'd just turned the other cheek.
Revenge can never validate killing someone, not even murder (See example "The Middle East", "Africa", "American ghettos" - they've been killing each other for revenge for donkeys years, and look at the state they're in), heck, revenge can never be validated, period. It just doesn't achieve anything, only escalates the situation.
That's why gang's end up in wars all the time. One guy "disrespects" another guy, he in "revenge" beats him up, his victim's friends then in "revenge" gang beat him, before you know it, someone ends up dead.
That's not the right way to solve anything, and it only gets you "respect" from other people who buy into the concept;and that respect only lasts as long as you can keep escalating it, eventually they - or you - miss a step, and end up on the recieving end of someone elses "revenge". THAT is why I think you'll find most Aspies who get bullied don't fight back, because if you fight back the only way you can win, is keep winning for as long as you're in the situation or you'll get hurt ten times worse than if you'd just turned the other cheek.
Revenge can never validate killing someone, not even murder (See example "The Middle East", "Africa", "American ghettos" - they've been killing each other for revenge for donkeys years, and look at the state they're in), heck, revenge can never be validated, period. It just doesn't achieve anything, only escalates the situation.
09-26-2006, 02:03 AM
Seriously... the more Jason posts the more he shows his true colours. And they're not a pretty shade.
Jason, quick tip.
Put away the JCB, Shovel and Jackhammer, and stop digging yourself deeper :grin:
Jason, quick tip.
Put away the JCB, Shovel and Jackhammer, and stop digging yourself deeper :grin:
09-26-2006, 02:30 AM
Noctivagus it's worthless arguing with a teenager they know everything and are never wrong. :roll:
Every once and a while one of these bullied hotheads. Usually they rage and tough act is a cover for a huge Inferiority complex. This one actually is actually acted out his violent thoughts.
Jason can I ask a question. If this guy got that mad for you messing up his truck, how mad do you think he is over you messing up his face and getting him arrested. He has no reason to fear you after all you just showed him that your afraid to face him without a weapon. And he probably could get weapons of his own and better ones(a baseball bat perhaps). Do you really expect a guy like this to simply go away and lick his wounds?
Perhaps "The Media" will be more fair towards you when they write your obiturary.
Every once and a while one of these bullied hotheads. Usually they rage and tough act is a cover for a huge Inferiority complex. This one actually is actually acted out his violent thoughts.
Jason can I ask a question. If this guy got that mad for you messing up his truck, how mad do you think he is over you messing up his face and getting him arrested. He has no reason to fear you after all you just showed him that your afraid to face him without a weapon. And he probably could get weapons of his own and better ones(a baseball bat perhaps). Do you really expect a guy like this to simply go away and lick his wounds?
Perhaps "The Media" will be more fair towards you when they write your obiturary.
09-26-2006, 09:53 AM
Coming back to the actual murder:
In 2003 an Aspie woman wrote an article for her website in which she compares Asperger Syndrome and Antisocial Personality Disorder (formerly called sociopathic). That article cannot be accessed, but I printed it when I read it, and here are extracts from it:
"Asperger Syndrome: May be violent in panic or extreme anger.
Shows remorse for temper/ violence...and behaves awkwardly for a while after such events.
Finds violence or other's pain frightening...or distressing, may appear indifferent/blank if under stress."
"Antisocial Personality Disorder: Violence is calculated and purposeful.
No remorse for such happenings (may act remorse to people in authority e.g. teachers, judges)
Finds violence and pain amusing or interesting. May act condolences to people if powerful (ie for their own later gain) or if given excuse to violent towards 'perpetrator' (ie demanding or enacting violence against person thought to cause initial problem as 'punishment')".
In 2003 an Aspie woman wrote an article for her website in which she compares Asperger Syndrome and Antisocial Personality Disorder (formerly called sociopathic). That article cannot be accessed, but I printed it when I read it, and here are extracts from it:
"Asperger Syndrome: May be violent in panic or extreme anger.
Shows remorse for temper/ violence...and behaves awkwardly for a while after such events.
Finds violence or other's pain frightening...or distressing, may appear indifferent/blank if under stress."
"Antisocial Personality Disorder: Violence is calculated and purposeful.
No remorse for such happenings (may act remorse to people in authority e.g. teachers, judges)
Finds violence and pain amusing or interesting. May act condolences to people if powerful (ie for their own later gain) or if given excuse to violent towards 'perpetrator' (ie demanding or enacting violence against person thought to cause initial problem as 'punishment')".
10-02-2006, 06:10 PM
It was the bit about "quite enjoying violence" that got me. I wonder if he truly is Aspie, too. He hardly seemed to worry or care about the family and friends of the woman he murdered and how they are now suffering.
10-03-2006, 12:24 PM
Yes, the only way he could be is if he had some comorbid condition such as antisocial personality disorder.
10-07-2006, 11:02 AM
There's always the option of learning martial arts (although they are not to be misused). I know a young man who is fairly slightly built but he had a job as a doorman at one stage.
He has a double black belt in karate and that is quite a rare achievement. I don't know if he ever had to use it but it added a lot to his confidence that he could look after himself better if someone tried to attack.
He has a double black belt in karate and that is quite a rare achievement. I don't know if he ever had to use it but it added a lot to his confidence that he could look after himself better if someone tried to attack.
10-09-2006, 09:22 AM
Mark, that must have been very upsetting for you.
10-31-2006, 01:14 PM
I don't know about Aspies not being "allowed" to do customer service jobs but I certainly think they should not be "forced into" them. I can handle a bit of customer service if I know what to say and believe in what I am saying.
But I could never pretend to be nice to someone whose actions I despised eg. someone who spoke rudely to me for no reason. I would be just civil and that's all and I would not smile (not difficult as I only smile occasionally anyway). Any sort of fast food place would be too hectic for most of us to cope with; ditto with a busy restaurant.
I also agree very much with Timelord's point about our needing "closure". If I've ever had a dispute with somebody and it's sorted out in the end, I don't bear any more animosity. However, if was never resolved, I'm liable to stew about it from time to time.
I don't know where this stabbing took place, but surely there would have been some grounds for a charge of manslaughter. It's possible that this man's parents tried to get some help for him but were brushed off at the time. Also, a lot of people don't want to believe that their child has a problem or they think they will just "grow out of it".
But I could never pretend to be nice to someone whose actions I despised eg. someone who spoke rudely to me for no reason. I would be just civil and that's all and I would not smile (not difficult as I only smile occasionally anyway). Any sort of fast food place would be too hectic for most of us to cope with; ditto with a busy restaurant.
I also agree very much with Timelord's point about our needing "closure". If I've ever had a dispute with somebody and it's sorted out in the end, I don't bear any more animosity. However, if was never resolved, I'm liable to stew about it from time to time.
I don't know where this stabbing took place, but surely there would have been some grounds for a charge of manslaughter. It's possible that this man's parents tried to get some help for him but were brushed off at the time. Also, a lot of people don't want to believe that their child has a problem or they think they will just "grow out of it".
11-01-2006, 11:45 AM
No use throwing him in jail if he has a mental health problem that could be treated. It seems to me that he would have mental health issues.
11-02-2006, 02:20 PM
Sometimes it really doesn't take much (seemingly), but if you go back into the person's history, they've probably taken a lot of hits and finally one more is one too many and they do something desperate.