I don't know if it's already been posted here, but assuming that it isn't I'd like to show you the following:
http://www.kmarshack.com/news/current/as/faq.html
....AKA Ms. Marshack's (a psychologist) view on AS relationships with family members (including wife and kids). An part of her book can be read on the site too.
It saddens me that somebody in her position is spreading a wrong image of us. Although she's not blatantly dismissing us as being defected, she focuses too much on the problems that apparently will arise in whatever form, like that's all there is to it with us.
Regardless of the fact that she has family members with AS (cause given the fact that we still are all individuals, it's not a proper foundation when stating that you know about AS, especially when you're a 'professional'), any person with knowledge on AS should know better than to say this:
'But what all Asperger people seem to have in common is the effect that they have on their love ones. Because they are not able to empathize, they leave us feeling alone and crazy. The relationship seems more like that of caretaker to a disabled person.'
And there's more of that on her site. Disappointing, dreadful and even somewhat scary. I mean come on, nobody's denying that problems could arise during AS-NT interactions due to our differences. But the portrayal on that site is quite ridiculous and ignorant.
Are there women with Asperger Syndrome?
Yes and their lives are probably even more complex than their male counterparts. To some extent, males with Asperger’s are more accepted because their behavior is viewed as extreme male thinking. But women with Asperger Syndrome are viewed as cold, uncaring, and selfish. Many AS women never marry or they marry AS men.
I hear that a lot of women with AS are actually more accepted by NT men than AS men are accepted by NT women.
That's what I hear on the forums too.
'But what all Asperger people seem to have in common is the effect that they have on their love ones. Because they are not able to empathize, they leave us feeling alone and crazy. The relationship seems more like that of caretaker to a disabled person.'
I find that extremely insulting, and I know if I let my husband read that he'd be furious at the implication. Her view of people like me as needing a "caretaker", as unable to have a healthy relationship, is so disgusting I don't even have words for it.
These women marry their aspie husbands knowing what they're like. All this bitching about how they can't magically transform their men into the Ideal Husband after the fact is immature and unreasonable. And it's unfair to the partners whom they have sworn to stand by for better or worst, in sickness or health.
Gotta love her interpretation of people with AS having children as a "tragedy", too.
The whole "not able to empathize" bit is a stereotype. If that was the case, how on earth did they persuade a woman to marry them? Nearly all high-functioning aspies can empathise in one form or another, we just have trouble expressing empathy correctly.
Personally I would automatically suspect the motives of any marriage therapist who ups and calls herself a medical psychologist and then dives into the autism industry. Her newsletter touts "special discounts on wellness products". She has a sideline as a "business consultant". The only academic journal article she seems to have had published was in the journal Entrepreneurship: Theory and Practice. Draw your own conclusions about her motives. I'd say she's spotted autism as a new growth industry and is diving right in there.
I completely agree. It seems as though she's mixed a bit of opportunism with a personal vendetta to come up with this nefarious venture. Unforrtunately, the more people who are exposed to AS through stories on "therapies" such as hers, the more people who will believe that we really are heartless halfwits incapable of human emotion. :/
And you pretty much said what I was thinking about the "inability to emphasize" thing. Not expressing "correctly" and not feeling are two completely different things. The kind of blanket statements people like her make are like saying a person who doesn't know how to swear can't feel anger.
The following may very well clear Dr. Marshack of all impending charges of conditionism...
Hi Trent,
Thank you for sending me your thoughts. You know your note has me thinking about how to help people get beyond the label of Asperger’s. Each of us, NT and Aspie, are still unique human beings. No two of us are the same, although we can certainly see patterns in human behavior and the labels help to guide the process of discovering ourselves and others. But please do not be hung up on the label or the “symptoms.”
When you mention that you feel deeply for your mother, I believe you. Empathy has nothing to do with how deeply you feel, but how able you are to express those feelings to the other person, at the right time and to accurately perceive where the other person is coming from too. This is no easy feat for an NT either. But the place to start is where you have already begun, to ask for help and to care enough to try.
I am very impressed at your tender age that you want this help. Have you sought out resources for young adults in your local community? The way to develop empathy is to practice with others in a safe setting where it is OK to get it wrong a few times. But most importantly, don’t give yourself such a bad time for being inept at times. Self acceptance goes a long way. So check and see if there is a group for young adults with AS.
Again, I want to thank you for being so open with me and sharing your story. It took a lot of courage to write to me which means you have what it takes to succeed.
Kathy J. Marshack, Ph.D., P.S.
Licensed Psychologist
trent - i'm curious what help you asked for
"Many AS women never marry or they marry AS men."
Where's the rock that bit of wisdom is carved in? I showed Vernu the article and he gave me a hug and said "of course being married to you is awful, horrible and nasty. That's why I'm still here after 21 years."
This is one comment where I'm pretty sure he was being ironic!
Alison
[quote]
I hear that a lot of women with AS are actually more accepted by NT men than AS men are accepted by NT women.
This is how it works, NT men accept male and female aspies more, and NT women accept both male and female aspies less.
It's probably because we have the extreme male brain.
Aspie women marry aspie men? OH NO! Who'd have thought that people who are similar could fall in love and have committed relationships?
</sarcasm>
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but I'm going to do it anyway. If you read the first chapter of Dr.Marshack's book on what it was like for her to live with, not an "AS" husband, (Michael John Carley, and Stephen Shore both AS husbands go out of their way to make sure their families are content and connected) but a man with AS who, probably because he didn't receive the right treatment or intervention, laid in bed, wide awake while she was, screaming his name, and withering in agony because of her back spasms.
Just imagine, if your needs were ignored by an NT spouse, say you were hypersensitive to sound and your "hubby" knew you were, but would not turn down the volume of the stereo, or if the NT spouse knew you got outright frightened by being around all those people at parties, and yet he/she still expected you to be a first-rate host.
Just imagine, if your needs were ignored by an NT spouse, say you were hypersensitive to sound and your "hubby" knew you were, but would not turn down the volume of the stereo, or if the NT spouse knew you got outright frightened by being around all those people at parties, and yet he/she still expected you to be a first-rate host.
That's a problem that needs to be worked out, I think that we can all agree that such behaviour can not be condoned while trying to maintain a healthy relationship.
My point with this post was that it can be dealth with, and doesn't have to turn out like the situations described on Dr. Marshack's site. The fact that it may happen in most AS-NT relationships does not counter this argument; it may just mean that those NT-AS couples are using the wrong method to solve their problems.
These women marry their aspie husbands knowing what they're like. All this bitching about how they can't magically transform their men into the Ideal Husband after the fact is immature and unreasonable. And it's unfair to the partners whom they have sworn to stand by for better or worst, in sickness or health.
I think that you've hit the nail right on the head there, Elanivalae. One may assume that if a person marries someone, you the personality of the other; and it gave you enough of an impression that you want to spend the rest of your life with him/her.
If your SO had some issues you know you couldn't bear with for such a long time, then why didn't you address the problems instantly (before marriage) instead of irritating yourselves for years?
Though I can't judge these women as I don't know what they've been through, it does seem like it's a case of unfulfilled expectations. By knowing what your dealing with, who you're dealing with and using self-reflection to check what you might be doing wrong yourself, you might be able to tackle this possible problem.
I think that longterm problems in relationships are usually caused by a wrong interpetration or no use of all of the last three points, leading to misunderstanding of eachother and doubting yourself. If both people address these points properly, you can avoid all that. Several pairings have succeeded at that, though the 'knowing what you're dealing with' part(=AS) is still a bridge too far for many.
On another note, I must say that I was shocked at the amount (or better yet, lack of) information on NT husbands and AS wifes.
a man with AS who, probably because he didn't receive the right treatment or intervention, laid in bed, wide awake while she was, screaming his name, and withering in agony because of her back spasms.
He probaly was terrfied, and didn't know what to do. That can happen to a NT too, you know. It doesn't mean he didn't care for his wife, although that's the way she chose to interpret it. When something that shocking happens, it is possible to be so terrfied you can't move. NT or non-NT.
Alot of NT spouses do ignore, if someone has a hearing sensory issue, or do tell their partner go to the party, it'll be fine. They will assume that because their AS partner, for the most part, appears "normal" that their problems are simply an issue of will to change them. They don't see that it's like asking someone in a wheelchair, to walk.
This is why most of us are upset by prejudicial articles, and psychologists like Ms. Marshack, who make us look like monsters.
But how do they heal themselves?