Aspies For Freedom

I am an AS female with a male NT partner and I would like to know what is 'normal' behaviour in the following situation.

I have been trawling the net in search of the answer to this and have drawn a blank.

My partner wanted us to be able to go out somewhere 'spontaneously' so I made sure we had some cash on us so we could. We went to a pub. He kept looking over my shoulder. Then he pointed out a girl (who I thought was pretty) who he said was wearing 'an adventurous top'.

I dont like looking at people in public places, rather just scanning the crowd, you know? It felt weird but I looked at her but she had her back to us. The top fastened around the back with three sets of thin ties so her back was exposed. Rather like a modern sari blouse. I thought he wanted me to comment so I said 'That's nice, as along as she isnt' cold' because that's what I thought.' He said I couldnt see the front.

He carried on watching her. I was confused and uncomfortable because I didnt understand why he was with me but watching another girl and I didnt understand what it was about her top that was important.

Then he muttered a sentence I couldnt hear in its entirety just something about 'her boobs'. I asked what about them? He said 'never mind'. I wondered if maybe he didnt approve of her top. But surely he wouldnt have expected me to agree because he knows I never disappove of people's clothing - I think everyone has the right to wear what they want. And I probably would have worn it myself if I'd had it and could and the weather was hot.

Then he said, 'She is going in and out' (of the pub) I thought he was wondering why she was doing that. I saw she was holding a mobile phone. So I suggested that she was waiting for someone and that perhaps they were lost and she was giving them directions on the phone. He said 'What?' I repeated myself. 'Why are you saying that?' I told him I thought he was looking for a possible explanation for her behaviour. He said 'You dont understand why I told you about her, do you?' I said no. 'You dont like it that I said something to you about it, do you?' I said no and asked him to explain. He said he wasnt going to explain and 'Sometimes I cant communicate with you'.

I thought I better make an effort to understand. I said I thought perhaps he pointed her out so that I could comment on her top and I thought she looked pretty and I had said so.' He said forget it.

So what was all that about? He has told me it is normal for guys to look at girls. Is this normal behaviour when with gf though? I mean when I was single and was out and had met someone for a one-night stand, I would still keep looking for the next man and I expect the guy to be doing the same, looking for the next girl - making mental notes, you know? but discreetly. But I am not looking for the next man now I am with my partner. And I dont like looking at people anyway.

So can anyone tell me, please,  if is this normal NT behavior? What would have been the expected response from an NT gf?

And what possible explanations are there for a) watching the girl and b) pointing out the girl and her top to me? Because I didnt get it and its really bothering me.

Thank you Amy and Sibylle. Your second post was reassuring Sybelle.

But there are 2 things I don't understand.

Jealousy is not a pleasant emotion so why would someone want to provoke it in someone they love? This does not make sense.

When I am out in a public place I find my partner the most attractive individual present. I am not interested in examining the physical attributes of those around me apart from in terms of who might present a threat of violence.

Even if I was comfortable looking at others I would not want to attract their attention as I am unavailable and because I would not want to inspire jealousy in my partner.

This seems logical to me. Is this aspie reasoning? or 'female' reasoning or it just me?

It may be that he wanted you to wear a top like that.  He may have been fantasizing about you in sexy clothing.  If he appeared hurt, he may have felt you didn't want to wear anything sexy for him.  The spontaneity of the pub visit may indicate a desire for sexual adventure.  Your logical evaluation of her top indicated a lack of that desire.

Well Khaliban, I hope so. I would like that because usually he thinks I wear too much sexy clothing only though to me its just being comfortable.

I think Gareth some aspies are more knowledgeable about social rules than some NT's because I for one have made a study of them my life's work!

And if its logical to think such behaviour would make me jealous then why do it? I dont understand the role of jealousy in a relationship.

Ah Firefoxy that is brilliant and made me laugh at the way it went STRAIGHT over my head.

I dont understand the ooo-look-at-the-hooker thing. What is it with that? I dont know how to tell who is (been told I look like one occasionally and even asked how much I charge! - NT jokes I HOPE   )and anyway they are just business women in a career circumstances have delivered them into. I have chatted to them not knowing what they did and have found them nicer and friendlier than most women.

But your comment is very helpful because next time I can do the same-wavelength thing by saying, 'Do you think she is a hooker then?'  Then I would be giving the expected response.

I couldnt truthfully comment on the false breasts matter as I wouldnt be able to tell. I suppose if someone pointed a woman with them out to me it would be interesting to register their appearance in case I ever wanted to have cosmetic surgery myself or someone asked me advice about it.

Jealousy and reassurance was a helpful link. I understand better why NTS do that now. Terratorialism I do understand. I dont like other women taking what I regard as physical liberties with my partner. But as he does not invite them I wouldnt see that as a problem with him.

Sojaw your exploration of jealousy and relationships made sense to me. I tried what you suggested... Let me just post this while i can ..

Well when we were out at the pub this evening I asked my partner about the girl in the other pub and 'would you like me to wear a top like that?'

He said, 'No!' emphatically. he asked me why I asked. I said, 'I thought perhaps thats why you pointed her out to me'

He said, 'No, it was because her boobs were hanging out'

I said, 'And it looked sexy?'

He said, 'Everyone was looking at her!' He said it was like when he met me I used to go dancing in short skirts and very skimpy underwear. He said he would be seen dead with that person. I asked if he meant that I dont do that now and he said yes. So I asked if he meant that the girl was embarrassing and he said yes. and about to ask 'but embarrasing for whom? as she was not embarrassed and neither was I when I used to dress in that way he talked about but before I could he said 'Why do you bring these things up if you cant handle the conversation?'

But I wasnt upset just tryng to understand it and I explained this and he said I asked lots of questions whereas most people would only need one.

'People who dont have asperger's you mean?' I asked

'Yes' I felt hurt and he said he was joking. But I dont think it was me who couldnt handle the conversation.

So I guess DW you are right. he was enjoying people watching and commenting. But I dont understand this: if the sight was distasteful why not just look somewhere else? After all she was occupuying only a small sector the field of his vision.

And I am having trouble with the menu analogy. If someone continues to look at the menu, isnt it to see what they might like to have another time? Or they might change their order, or send their food back saying it is bad and order something else they are seeing on the menu or they might order the other things later. Isnt that the point of continuing to look at the menu? So isnt that why men keep looking at other women? to maybe change their partner or try to add another woman to their lives?

(My partner said something else on another subject which has really disturbed me but I think I will ask about it in a new thread because it might be a trouble for other people too)

Thank you DW, that helped. I'm really glad you were still on line to reply. This has all been doing my head in. So next time my partner comments on a girl being revealingly dressed I will remember what you have told me, that it is interesting because it is odd or a bit embarrassing.

What is it that NTs hope to learn from a study of something odd or a bit embarrassing though? By 'study' I mean continued observation. I just want to understand.

Yes, I was taught not to stare.

But there's another reason why I would be very careful for example if I wanted to see what was written on someone's t-shirt, because the person wearing it might see me looking and look at me - that would result in eye-contact.

Oh yes Firefoxy I would be the one who'd feel uncomfortable. I don't have consciousness of people looking at me. I only know because others tell me people are or were looking at me. Is this unciousness an aspie thing?

btw today I wore a short skirt because it was hot and felt so happy and empowered to be wearing what is to me 'my clothes'. I think maybe that girl felt that way in her top. It didnt seem to embarrass her or anyone she seemed to be with. So what's all the stress about, I wonder.

Are you there anyone? DW? Sybelle? Gareth?

Sorry to go on about this. This is doing my head in. Yesterday we were watching a movie with a musical scene and lots of people dancing and my partner comments on this girls breats, saying they cant be real because they werent moving about as breasts of that size would and Im thinking what is going on here? Is it him is it NT guys is it guys full stop? is he, are they, on 24-hr-tits-watch or what? Is he examining the breasts of EVERY SINGLE woman he sees in real life, on the screen, in magazines, on the computer? If so, why? I cannot think of a parallel for me, for the very few females I know.

And we were in the park and he pointed out a girl underdressing and sunbathing in her bikini. Then a friend came along and noticed her, and my partner said she'd gone away and then later that she had come back and was undressing again. I wanted to laugh because it seemed so absurd. Er yes, girl in park in hot weather. Yes people sunbathe in the park in hot weather. I've done that. Yes? So?  I could not for the life of me see anything unusual about her.

You can see people any ol time. But wide blue sky, sun lighting up the leaves, trees through the misty warmth, aeroplanes, jet streams, berries, blades of grass. How often do we get to experience those things. But what is the focus on? A girl lying on the grass. hm. No I dont get it.  She wasnt out of place, she wasnt wearing an unusual bikini, she wasnt doing anything, not turning cartwheels, not constructing a full scale model of the Eiffel tower over herself, not posing seductively, not anything, just lying there.

Im laughing and bewildered at the same time. Ive had friends between say 10 and 16 who behave this way which I can understand because the awareness of girls/boys as a sexual entity is new and therefore interesting and they were in the process of accumulating data and experience. But in the case of much older guys (who have girlfriends) ...?

It's a guy thing.  We notice breasts a lot.  We notice women in bikinis a lot.  NT and aspie alike.  I find it odd he would mention it to his girlfriend.  That might mean he feels safe with you.  That's an NT intimacy/comfort level thing.  But, it's not weird for him to notice.

The more I read it, the more I think he was saying,  "Hey, look at that!"  For an NT, that can be the end of it.  An AS will pursue the importance of "that" to an annoying degree.  In this situation, an NT response might be,  "Yeah, she looks like a total ***."  This says to the NT,  "You have correctly identified a 'that' worthy of notice." or "We think in similar ways."  While the AS response,  "That's nice, as along as she isn't cold.",  says,  "The 'that' you thought worthy of notice is unimportant; therefore, your interests are beneath me."

I've also found that when NTs won't explain something, it often means they can't.  Remember, they process much of their information intuitively.  Thinking about it, putting it into cognitive terms, is difficult for them, even offensive.  If they need to explain an intuition, they've made some kind of mistake.  If you can tell them the correct explanation, they will tell you if you're right, but that's it.  We want intellectual discourse.  They want ego stroking.  That can be a tough mix.

SoccerFreak would grab her boyfriend's face and turn it facing her and say "KISS ME!!!"

Example of a women checkin someone out "hey liz...look over there...CHECK OUT THE PACKAGE ON THAT GUY!" (then loads of giggling, well maybe im the only one laughing...so yeah)

LOL, no, im just talking in third person.