Aspies For Freedom

One of my coworkers shows several signs of autism and so I've been researching it and trying to improve our relations. He has told me that he feels isolated and attacked by everyone (no one seems to get along with him). He has offended me on occasion to the point where I had to leave the room. I don't think he realized that he bothered me (so I tried to explain why but he thought I was attacking him).

I really don't know how to improve the situation. It seems that he thinks we are ganging up on him and we feel like he is mean to us. He can see when we are mean to him but not when he is rude to us. The only thing I can think of is to leave the room when he says something that bothers me....

I'm really hurt that he dislikes me so much and I wish I wasn't bothered with how he speaks to me....any suggestions or insight?

Yeah, I've noticed that.  He doesn't like questions like "what did you do this weekend?"  His answer is always "stared at the wall."  Or often he answers questions literally instead of engaging in conversation.  So, I've learned not to ask "social niceties" type questions....not hard to adjust to.

See... the way your response made me feel when I read it...is exactly how I feel when I talk to him.  The way I took it is that you are implying that I am too sensitive/wasting time/ignorant?  I imagine though that you actually aren't TRYING to hurt my feelings.  I suppose there isn't much that can be done...except I can spare hurting his feelings by not reacting.  This is why I sometimes leave the room and cool off.

Thanks for all the insight.  Amy, the funny thing is ...we are all computer programmers and so logic is a huge part of our work. I would like to think that I think logically

I think I'm having trouble understanding why he doesn't see how he hurts our feelings.   I suppose he has trouble seeing how even when you speak in a matter of fact way...you can imply things.  Like a lawyer who asks literal questions but there is an implication behind them.  Is that where the disconnect is? the implications?  Because though the implications aren't clearly spelled out...there is a general consensus on the interpretation.  And that general consensus (my coworkers) isn't matching up with my other coworker (who might have asperger's).

ok this is good to know.

I'm curious...do people with asperger's tend to connect well with other people with asperger's (and not simply because they deal with the same issues but in the way they communicate)?  Do they feel a strong desire to connect with people or is it not really something they think about?

I can't stop reading about asperger's!!  Its absolutely fascinating.

Just like men and women bicker over who is "right" and tease eachother about differences...this brings another element of diversity.....which can be equally frustrating and fascinating!  

I think my coworker comes from a history of being teased...so perhaps he attacks before he is attacked.  I have a  feeling he is going to lose his job as he has made quite a few enemies.

Anyways..my next question is...do aspies get hurt by other aspies when they speak bluntly? and...how do aspies show emotion to eachother?   When non-aspies have small talk its often purely to "bond" and connect with someone.  How is this done with aspies?  Or is there just not a need for that.  Dont you wonder what people think of you? how they feel about you?  how do you pick up on that?

Ah, the Aspie programmer.  I know them well because I am one and now that I know about AS I can ususally spot them.

I had all kinds of problems on the job at first because I was opinionated, came across as arrogant, blunt, etc.  Since I was young, I didn't understand what, as someone else said, about how adults don't ususally treat each onther badly even if they don't like them.  If I didn't like someone - they knew it.  It seemed like lying or being phoney to be nice to someone that treated me badly or I didn't like.  I never got fired, but I was close serveral times at first.  You can be a great programmer, but if no one wants to be around you, then one can get fired.  No one likes to work with someone who is unpleasent.

Aspies do get into fights with other Aspies. Hangout on the forums long enough and there will be an eruption of some type.  We can actually be quite sensitive when OUR feelings are hurt.  Many of us have been bullied all our lives.  

Ususally the way to talk to an Aspie who is that close up is to talk about what they are into.  Is programming their passion?  Talk about the naunses of programming, for example.    

I agree that ususally Aspies do tend to make friends best with people who are "highly empathetic and self-assured NT's."  Although I have an Aspie friend who I clicked with very well when we were younger.  It helped then that we both liked to drink.  Since I stopped drinking (to excess,) we don't socailize much anymore.  He "self-medicates."  Many of us are very funny and that's how I ususally get to know other people.  However, I'm the kind of Aspie who does like people, wants friends, but doesn't always know how to do it.  

Some people "get me" and some don't.  I don't let the ones who I don't get bother me much anymore.  I keep my mouth shut about things in the office and try not to talk about others or be too judgemental.

It shows a lot of compassion that you are trying so hard with this guy.

Yeah, tenaciouscj, I agree with you.  I'd rather someone be honest with me and risk hurting my feelings than hint around, or get mad at me without me understanding why, etc.  With my last manager, I told her that I'm Aspie and worked on teaching her how to manage me.  

One thing I told her was to just be honest with me, even blunt.  Be as nice as possible, I do get my feelings hurt, but I tell me if their is a problem.  She turned out to be the best manager I ever had.  Unfortunately, she took another job within the company.

Dogface Trying , Trying Dogface... he's nice deep down inside... He just doesn't get that there is a lot of learning to do on our side.

So Trying... *coughs* You fancy him hey?  :wink:
It's very nice of you to want to understand him... And yeah I found this subject to be fascinating too and I'm learning and reading and all to try and understand my partner... It's diferent!
he still hurts my feelings so much...oh sometimes I just have to bite my lip and tears come to my eyes in seconds but I breathe in and look him in the eyes and say "That really hurt me because ...." then I explain why in black and white. This helped me to realise that actually sometimes I was mad at really supid stuff and when I would say it out loud then it had another perspective to it...
He gets that it really hurts and says sorry I was just being me. and we both laugh!

Well coming from this honesty topic why don't you just take him aside for coffee or so and ask him if he has any autistic  disorder..? be reasonable and clear and apologise beforehand for the personal question but just ask straight away. he may not even know it and may see in that a new light to his life or may tell you you're mad and its none of your bussiness but hey!

Thanks for writing so much.  

I mentioned aspergers to him...just that I am fascinated by it and that I've been reading about it.  He knew what it was and spoke a little bit about it ( in fairly positive way). He said "they see things that we don't see."  He didn't elaborate.  

Recently he has not been so argumentative and I've been getting along well with him.  No complaints.

Dogface - first off, why is your screenname dogface?  Secondly --  All that you wrote is very true.  We tend to make generalizations and we carry around images of what we think we are like and what other people are like.  Then we look for ways that they match that image and when there are contradictions we make up theories as to why they dont match up.  I have no argument against what you wrote. I see this all the time and I take part in it too. But I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing.

I get most upset when I am telling a story and explaining how I felt at the time....and I'm ridiculed by his suggestions that I shouldn't have felt a certain way...that it can all be viewed logically.   Meanwhile, I see his anger towards people.  I see his nervousness when he has to talk in front of a group.  He feels emotions.  I find it hypocritical not to acknowledge other people's.

oh well i picked it up by learning...my first job i offended people without my knowledge and i dont even understand why everyone hates me.  im a nice person (to my best of knowledge) until one person actually went straight up to me and go,

"you're autistic arent you?"

i tried to waver that off, but a part of me felt that i'd been DISCOVERED!  and i sorta tried to hide that but didnt work.  i kept trying to imagine what i'd done, or said, that has irritated people.  

i went off to my second job, to which i didnt stay longer, i realised i was in the direct opposite of my character.  i feared interaction, and i took up a sales job, pretending to be ok about it.  i wanted to change, and was actually scared shitless (i have no idea how i managed to pass the interview...i guess its cos i was lying through my teeth, once i realised i was fabricating a lie, i just told the story without any remorse)

i later broke down, and come to terms with myself that it wont work, or i will just be miserable.  so i went hunting for a job more suitable for what i  can deal with, engineering.  but being in the sales line made me alot more quicker to adapt, and i guess i have less issues mingling with my current colleagues - at least im not so hated as before.  i learned how to keep up appearances by occasionally engaging in small chitchats jusst to keep everyone around me if not like me, at least not hating me.  but there are still people who dislike me, and probably make fun of my clumsiness behind my back.  

i fell down often, and is in general quite clumsy that i can never get much "manual work" done.

Your last paragraph...so many comments needed...so unsure of how to say it.
Look, you can read it automaticialy. He may not be able to or at least need to concetrate on it but if you're thinking about subject A, you can't give your undivided focus to subject B, which is what he would probably have to do.
I told one of my friends the other day about my AS.
I think they were friednly-curious about it, I ended up explaing it along the lines of body language and facial expressions being letters and emotions being words, and just as indiviuals with dyslexia struggle to decode letters into words, Aspies struggle to decode the facial expressions and body language into actil emotions. Yeh, it seems hypocriticial to a clueless person but chances are its not.

But don't forget, chances are he was bullied throughout his schoollife.

We all know that bullying can (and does, in some cases) lead to self-esteem issues.

Of course, the 'excellent people skills' that seems to be an essential requirement on every single BEEPING job advertisement is really gonna help.  :roll:

He may just be a rude guy. Just because he has no social skills it doesn't mean he has autism or a.s.. Rudeness is not a synonym for autism. Does he exhibit any other behaviours?

My nephew was Diagnosed years ago with AS. He is now 14 and even though we don't talk or see each other as much as NT's. I always seem to connect with him better than anyone. In fact he is why I think I have AS. We share many of the same traits.

I don't think that he is aspergers my ex was like that and he had no problems with small talk he was just selfish and insensitive there are two personality disorders that describe these symptoms I think one was narcarcisstic personality disorder

I'm not sure if people with Asperger's necessarily get along with each other better. My husband doesn't have Asperger's. I'm anti-social so if my husband wasn't so social then we never would have gotten together. He's a very social person.

He also is one of the most patient people I've ever met- he's extremely tolerant of my obsession(s) and he gently calms me when I have a meltdown- and he's a giant geek too so we do think similarly in a lot of ways.  I think it just takes the right kind of person to make friends with an Aspie. It's easy to do online since everything is just text. My husband and I met in school but we became friends online.