Hi,
Looking for a little help here. I'm a parent on the spectrum with a 3 yo & a 4 yo, who appear to be NT so far. The 4 yo is starting to ask questions along the lines of "Does everyone die" "Will I die" "What happens when you die" and "I dont want to die".
I'm at best agnostic, and find it difficult to answer her questions in anything less than a factual manner. I know the questions will come up again and I dont want to make her scared so am looking for any advice, URLs or books that can basically script it for me. I've tried googling for Humanist advice on this and havent got anywhere.
Richard
It's a tough one.
Have they got any pets, or had any die? If they did it could be used as an example that if the pet had an illness and was in pain, that death was a release from that, and was like going to sleep forever.
It's a tough one.
Have they got any pets, or had any die? If they did it could be used as an example that if the pet had an illness and was in pain, that death was a release from that, and was like going to sleep forever.
We live in the country so the children are used to seeing dead things, we havent had any pets die though. I think she understands a lot of it with respect to animals, I've always made clear what meat is all about.
Going to sleep forever is the kind of thing I think I want to avoid though. I remember having long phases of being scared to go to sleep as a kid because I was terrified I would never wake up again. I should have looked into this sooner, I guess I underestimated how young the children would be when they started asking.
If you want to give them comfort let them know that it's a long way off and that they may not have to experience it for a long time. They may be too young to understand this, but technology is constantly advancing in this regard.
Gareth,
Thats about the sum total of what I've done already. I also used the conversations we've had so far as an opportunity to promote healthy eating - "I dont want to die, how can I not die" - "Eating all your carrots and brocolli will help, and so will exercise". I just worry that this matter of fact stuff that works for me may not be very convincing or comforting for my NT daughter. I also worry that if I dont handle it carefully one of the many well meaning Christians in our family will feel obliged to stick their beak in with some nice and cuddly Baby Jesus type answers.
Ah, but I love the nice and cuddly baby Jesus type answers, lol.
Truthfully, it does make it easier when you are Christian, in that you get to talk about "going to live with God" but not needing your body anymore, which is why we bury it.
My daughter, nearing 6, NT, has been very worried about me dying for about 6 months now. This last round I stopped and asked her "why."
It seems that because she knows we are older than most parents, and that people die when they get old, that she is afraid I won't live to see her grow up.
I've told her that most people live to 80 or 90 in today's world. That there is never any guarantee someone won't be called to live with God sooner, since people do die at younger ages, just not very often. But, odd's are, I'm going to be around a long, long time. Besides, I told her, I still am not wise enough. People are put on this Earth to learn certain things, and it isn't likely you will leave it until you've learned them.
Just take "God" out of my description, and it can still work fine, I think.
I agree with you about not using sleep as an example. I would also caution against the health food connection, since that may give the false impression people can control their mortality. They can't. They can, however, control how healthy and energetic they will feel while alive, and that alone is worth eating healthy for.
Well, for some people it's a relief to think of a life after death and it might help kids. You could tell her, that other people have other believes, like Christians do and Buddhists and so on.
Another way to explain neccessity of death to a child might be, that this world would soon be crowded if nobody died. And therefor the old and sick (and weary) would have to make space for someone else. Well, better let out the thing with the sick - she might be scared if she gets ill someday (with cold or something "normal" kids get). Maybe you can have a picture for her, like: If she has very much toys and her room is crowded, she'd have to give some away (let them "die/go from her world") to have space for new toys and for games to play in her room.
Usually in that age it's that the children need reassurance that they don't have to die soon, so if you explained that, she might not come up with that topic for quite a while.
I think it's more important, how you tell her (without showing fear yourself) than what you tell her.
Sibylle
I've told her that most people live to 80 or 90 in today's world. That there is never any guarantee someone won't be called to live with God sooner, since people do die at younger ages, just not very often. But, odd's are, I'm going to be around a long, long time.
Yes, we've touched on this a little, how I managed to end the last conversation was by letting her know it was likely a long way off.
I agree with you about not using sleep as an example. I would also caution against the health food connection, since that may give the false impression people can control their mortality. They can't. They can, however, control how healthy and energetic they will feel while alive, and that alone is worth eating healthy for.
I did qualify the food thing by letting her know it was only a possible help in living longer rather than the Grail, I guess I'm not too worried about giving her delusions of immortality though as I've only convinced myself of its unlikelihood in the last few years :lol:
Thanks for the reply, its nice to get a feel that I'm on track.
Richard
Well, for some people it's a relief to think of a life after death and it might help kids. You could tell her, that other people have other believes, like Christians do and Buddhists and so on.
I could tell her that, I told her that its unknown what happens after death, then blustered a lot. Problem is I dont believe it and some of the biggest resentments of my own childhood were the (What I perceive as) lies I was told about these matters. Its all very well respecting other peoples beliefs, but propagating them by putting them forward to my children as realistic possibilities is beyond me I think.
Another way to explain neccessity of death to a child might be, that this world would soon be crowded if nobody died. And therefor the old and sick (and weary) would have to make space for someone else. Well, better let out the thing with the sick - she might be scared if she gets ill someday (with cold or something "normal" kids get). Maybe you can have a picture for her, like: If she has very much toys and her room is crowded, she'd have to give some away (let them "die/go from her world") to have space for new toys and for games to play in her room.
I might try the toys/overcrowding suggestion next time as she's fairly unmaterialistic and binning broken toys doesnt seem to offend her at all. Even this is hard for me to get my head round, I used to love my toys more than anything and was inconsolable at the loss of any.
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I think it's more important, how you tell her (without showing fear yourself) than what you tell her.
Sibylle
I know, this is really hard with my daughter though. She has a serious peanut allergy, we have to carry epi-pens everywhere, and talking about death to her just makes my blood run cold.
Thanks for the ideas
Richard
The toy analogy is interesting ...
It reminded me of what we say as we dump our Christmas tree each year. That it lived a bright and shinning life, giving joy to us, but now it's job is done, and we are doing to send it to be with all the other finished trees, in the mulch factory, where it will enrich the world in a new and different way, but within the company of it's fellow trees. Lol, sounds a bit strange, but my kids have learned to see mulching as a sort of happy, circle-of-life thing. Haven't tried to connect that concept to human life, though ... but I've got the live with God thing to rely on :razz: .
Oh, and my kids do know that not everyone believes in God. They just haven't thought to ask about what that means about what I've told them about death. Phew!
I hope your daughter has a great first day at school!
If she does come home with tricky questions, I don't see anything wrong with telling her that you aren't sure how to answer, since you don't really believe in God.
It seems to be rather common for Aspies to be agnostic. Perhaps the whole concept of faith, believing in what cannot be proven, runs against the grain of a literal and logical mind. It's been interesting to watch my son in his faith development. He likes studying religion, but I'm not sure what his religious education teachers would think they really understand how he has come to accept God: "God is science." I actually think it's kind of cool, since he has found a way to integrate the faith he knows his family has within his own way of thinking. He wants to be part of the faith, because to him it's part of his identity (I don't think I forced that; I really do think he grabbed onto it), much like being 50% of Dutch heritage, or being 25% of Irish heritage. He likes having all these reference points for who he is and where he came from. He is interested in what others believe and why as well, and thinks it's cool how everyone is different, but is most comfortable exploring what he feels are part of him (he wasn't too fond of celebrating Shabbat at a camp run by a Jewish center he went to until I explained to him that Jesus was raised Jewish and probably celebrated Shabbat as a child).
ANYWAY, all those questions can be a fun opening into exploring the many ways people everywhere are different, and how we decide what it is we believe in, and what the traditions of our family mean. My kids are interested in all of that.
PS - it does make it easier that I don't believe in reading the Bible literally. It is all God's word, yes, I do believe that, but intended to convey lessons and concepts, not history. I had to reconcile my faith with science myself, when I was young, and am comfortable fitting it all together. If your relatives aren't like that, I can see it would be difficult.
I can see no fault in telling my kids what other ppl believe, as long as I make it clear, that this is "believes" and not "knowledge" and that it is to everybodys own brain to decide what to accept for oneself and what not.
For me this is part of my task to teach my children that they should think for themselfes. I really don't think it is ok to just tell them what they are to believe or not believe - that is quite the same what priests do. Kind of: "believe me, I am much older / more intelligent / have longer thought about this"
In fact there are some things I am into "just believe me", but that's more practical things. A lot of theories I tell my kids, they are just theories. And I tell them if it is a theory I believe in or if it is a theory most scientists believe in. Of course this is to be seen in relation to their age - some things have to wait until kids are older, to be discussed more differently.
Sibylle
With regards to the question of mortality specifically - empirical evidence tells us pretty much 100% that it's the physical brain that is responsible for all of our thoughts, feelings, memories and emotions. It therefore makes sense to say that once it's destroyed that all goes.
While nothing is really certain, even if the empirical evidence suggests it is, it makes sense to say that destruction of the brain is destruction of the person. A child may not understand this, but telling them what science and logic suggest is the best way forward.
On top of this, suggesting that death is a good thing either directly or indirectly by telling a child that there is a wonderful afterlife will ultimately cause problems. Suggesting it as a means to escape pain could potentially trigger suicidal thoughts. It is understandable to not want to tell the horrible truth, though in the long run telling a happy lie will be harmful.
Telling a child what various religions believe makes sense, but only in the context of "group x believes y". The politically correct idea that all religions are valid is nonsense. They cannot all be true.
My apologies to anyone whose religious or other beliefs I may have offended here, but this is an issue I feel rather strongly about.
I don't think it is political correct to say that all religions are valid. But it is in fact political correct to accept that different people have different believes and to try not to offend their believes as long as this is managable with a little bit of good will.
Today the animal of my youngest boy died and we buried it. We all (except for my aspie son) were quite sad and my son was hoping for a better world for Wuscheltiger. I did not object, for it was a bit of a relief from his sadness for him and I know that he will grow out of this, just like I did.
As long as someone does not give his/her life on earth away for a better life after, I don't think it's very bad to believe there is something. It's like those medicines that pretend to work without anything in it (sorry, can't remember the name right now) - if you believe in them, they in fact can work and they do no harm as long as you might not have a real powerful medicine against that illness.
Well, this is too complicated for me to discuss in English :cry: I can't express exactly what I mean and that makes me sand and frustrated...
Sibylle
The problem is that ultimately, pretending that there's another life after this one (even if it's just as good as this one, if not better) devalues the one real life that we do have. Someone who has always known the truth will (generally speaking) never succumb to suicidal idealation or martyrdom and will do their best to look after themselves. While lieing on their deathbed, the ones who think that there is another, better, life will simply give up. Those who know the truth will fight for life.
With regard to religious tolerance I believe it is a good thing to tolerate people's beliefs while not accepting their validity. However, tolerating these beliefs when they can cause actual harm is a rather bad idea. I do not (for example) have any kind of tolerance for fundamentalist christians who oppose birth control, any form of religious brainwashing that makes people into martyrs or religious beliefs working their way into law in unappropiate ways.
I will also not censor myself if a subject that may involve religious overtones comes up. The most I will do in this regard is state that such discussion is not appropiate in the current context (for example at university).
I used to get in long discussions with a woman who claimed herself to be agnostic and accepting of other's beliefs. The problem was, she saw religion as destructive to mankind and the running thread through every discussion was that what she really wanted was for those of us who believe to denounce it.
If that is what you believe, fine. My issue with her was that she wouldn't be upfront about it.
I do find certain fundamentalist beliefs can lead to destructive behaviors, but I also see the purpose such extreme beliefs serve for the person involved. The kinds of people drawn to fundamentalism need more quidance and rigidity than the world can provide them. For them, it's the only way to make it through life. I have a good friend like this. Which would be fine, if extremists with an agenda weren't so easily capable of manipulating that into destructive acts. In the end, it isn't the belief system that is destructive as much as it is those who take advantage of it. Evil exists everywhere, but that does not mean that "everywhere" is void of anything that is not evil.
There is no way to convey to someone else why I feel I "know" there is a God. That's OK. I do believe the world needs different belief systems, because the people those belief systems serve have, simply, different needs. While the different beliefs cannot all can't be the complete truth, they could each still be valid at least in part. If Jay likes cars and Jeff likes trains, either should be fine ... both will get you to the end of the journey.
Science cannot explain why twins with the exact same genes can have entirely different personalities. There is something to who we are that comes from an unknown place and cannot be measured. How can anyone know that that unidentifiable something does not move on to another place? That the energy does not somehow continue to exist? All you can prove is that it has left the physical body.
I think you overestimate the draw of Heaven, the desire to let go of this life to experience that one.
My daughter is clearly afraid of death. She asked the other day why we couldn't live forever. I told her that there comes a time when you've done all the things you've wanted to do, and your body is tired. That you feel things are complete, and you are just ready to say goodbye. About dying too soon, I've been telling her that while there are no guarantees, it rarely happens, because we are all supposed to accomplish certain things during our lives. God won't call us to Heaven until they are done.
I think your way of explaining things would upset my daughter. I would't choose it myself. Why does a 5 year old need the cold hard facts? I don't lie to her. I've never promised to live forever. I've never promised her that God will take care of her. I've told her what we BELIEVE.
Anyway, it's OK for each of us to believe differently. That is my opinion; the only thing that worries me is that I am not sure it is yours.