Aspies For Freedom

so I'm going to preface it with all the wonderful things about my exhusband (who, the more I read, I am positive is an Aspie like our son)

We met in high school and while I saw him as generally rude and strangely egotistical he really was his own person.  Peer pressure simply did not exist for him so everything from his personal interests to what he found attractive in a girl was genuinely coming from within.  He was a philosopher, he was artistic, he was obsessed with wonderfully geeky things, and he was amazingly childlike in some ways.

I was fascinated with his quirks, the fact that he wore his clothes to bed.  That he never unmade a made bed, lay on top instead, that he wore his tshirts on inside out so he'd be invisible, and had to have his wrists covered.  That he didn't care what teachers thought of his projects, he did what he wanted (he sold apathy to people as an "english" class project).  That he was so "in control of his emotions" but got weepy when he watched Bladerunner because he identified SO STRONGLY with the androids.  That his greatest dream (and obsession) was with a plague that would wipe out the earth's population to just a few scattered people who were all equally quirky.  He didn't have a shred of sexism, racism, homophobia, or bigotry in himHe seemed so open and fragile and absolutely closed off to other people at the same time.  I was protective of him, his feelings seemed to be fragile eggs.  

I was honoured that he saw me as his best friend and falling in love took us a year, and I loved him with all my heart.

The problem was that along with all those wonderful qualities was an intense need to be in control of himself and his surroundings.  I became part of those surroundings and over the years to keep the peace I had to keep my friends and social life seperate from our relationship, and then to forgo having a social life at all.  Once our son was born (and he told me recently he never wanted any kids -we have 3 hard fought for despite infertility issues - what he wanted was a clone and he got it with our first child) he became increasingly controlling and with children thrown into the mix I didn't have the ability to smooth over our enironment the way he required - kids take up a lot of space, they are messy, they are loud, they are unpredictable - and he started "punishing me".  I won't go into it all, but I left when my oldest was a toddler because he wanted out of the relationship...but I was supposed to stay and maintain life as he knew it.  I wouldn't and he kinda followed me to my new apartment and just wouldn't really leave.  I moved back in with him and the punishing continued.  

Finally, pregnant, and with him controlling every cent we had (I had to ask my kids for grocery money and he repaid them IF they produced a receipt) his parents urged me to leave and go into a shelter.  I would not have gone except the stress and the behaviour was also now being directed at our daughter (one of those children who is empathic and socially gifted, and totally keyed into her peer group).  I got a lot of help there, both counselling and in finding an apartment etc.  I've still had problems with him being incredibly invasive once he knew our new address etc, but thanks to my counsellors I maintained my boundaries long enough to start a life of my own, and to move on.

We spent 17 years together, 10 years of which were really hellish for me.

So with that background...everyone who hears about the specifics of what he did to me and how he treated me screams "ABUSE!" and frankly I was taken aback by it at first.  I am not saying that the things he did to me were okay, but I have driven myself near crazy trying to understand his perspective that it was "a mistake in communication" or that he really couldn't understand my reaction, or that he just needed to take control of things.  I believe him.  I don't think this was a case of a man trying to be abusive, but his need for control in the home sphere was just overwelming.

We tried marriage counselling twice and in both instances the therapist refused to keep seeing him because he was so closed to acknowledging what he was doing.  In both instances HE was the one who sought out the therapy though!

So I was wondering about other adult Aspies, is there any kind of relationship therapy that works for you?  How have you negotiated things with an NT partner?  With children?  With NT children?  With ASD children?

I guess I'm wondering how typical this sort of thing is.

I have heard of a lot more NTs abusing their aspie partners, than vice versa.

Your ex husband may or may not be an aspie, he may have traits, or he may have something else, he may have a personality disorder. Many of the things you say could cover aspergers, or a combination of things like NPD.

It's a bit vague, was he basically just very controlling? Over money and the house?

All I can say is: it doesn't have to be intentional in order to be abuse. Please don't tie yourself in knots trying to re-write the past because it "couldn't have been like that". It is perfectly possibly for someone to abuse without meaning to be abusive. That doesn't change what the person on the receiving end experiences, and also doesn't change the fact that the abuser needs to realise there is a problem and change before they can have a healthy relationship.

(I'm not saying this is necessarily your situation, what I'm saying is that it's a possible situation.)

When it comes to the counselling, I think it's nothing to do with whatever's going on with him, but more like the old joke:

How many therapists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Only one, but the lightbulb must really want to change.

Some people just shouldn't be married, and it can take a long time (in my father's case something like 35 years?!) to figure this out or to figure it out and act on it.  Or for the spouse to figure it out.  etc.

PS: It seemed like, in order to be tactful, there were some details of his "punishing" behaviour that you didn't tell us, and that those contribute to it really being abuse.  Am I right on that?

PS2: Aspies can be horrible just like NTs can.  All humans, after all, have this potential...  Or hr could seem Aspie and be something else like Amy said.

I have a lot of experience with abuse issues and am very sorry to hear that things in your marriage were so horrible.  I am glad you are out of it.

I'm far from an expert on anything I am about to say, so take it all from that perspective, but it is instinct and my instincts are usually pretty darn good.

I think the need to be controlling and the potential Asperger's are separate issues.  While, yes, an Aspie child like mine tries harder to mold the world to his vision than most other children, he doesn't do it in what would be considered an abusive way.  His confrontations are right out there, open, with no subversive means used to achieve them.  It's easy to tell him no, sorry, disagree; he'll just keep stubbornly insisting.

Abuse is different - it isn't about believing with all your heart that this is the way it is supposed to be (as my child does), it is about, simply, winning.  Whatever it takes.  I win, you lose.  Abuse is about power.  Period.

Could difficulties growing up as a missunderstood Aspie breed the kind of pain and anger that can feed abuse?  That is possible, just as it is with every unusually painful childhood.  Abuse is fed from a deep place of pain, and all sorts of things may have been the cause.

The cause, however, is not something that should concern you.  The cause was and is your husband's issue to deal with, should he ever choose to do so in individual, not relationship, therapy.  Abuse isn't a relationship issue, even though it exhibits itself in a relationship.  It is a personal issue belonging solely to the abuser.  The abuser alone can choose to seek out and deal with the source of his demons.  That is something you will hear over and over if you work with abused women's groups trying to understand what happened to you.  It never had ANYTHING to do with you; it was always all about him and his needs.  And those needs ... I believe ... they are separate from the possibility of Aspergers.

Yeah, and the fact that a person had an aspie flavor to his behaviour wouldn't make wrong actions any less wrong.

I meant to say that in my previous post but I donno if it came out that way.

perhaps he just need someone to explain to him in his own aspie language.
i know i would have done many things better if i understood that what i was doing was hurting others.
i had to realize this myself, and when i did, i felt sick.
i mean, i thought animals, and other people where only objects as a kid...
ppl who know me know, would say that i have progressed a lot in compassion and empathy since those days, i would even say that most NTs i meet are blind to my needs, feelings etc...


every time i understand something i have done wrong, it takes a while for me to resort everything, to rebuild the understanding, to get the empathy etc....
i just need stuff very well explained, and a little time to process it.
i am not evil, and i dont think your husband is/was either,
or maybe he was and i am, i dont know.


oh and another thing, if this does not make any sense, i am sorry i have not slept today.

Also it's possible that he was able to realize/notice the stuff that you need explained, and he was being evil, though you are not.  [There are a few other combinations statistically possible, too.]

Everybody and their motivations can be different.

Sometimes I used to try to explain my father to my mother, becos we apparently have a similar personality.  But then it would turn out that he and i might do the same thing in the same way, but why i thought i did that was nothing like why he thought he did that.

Your ex sounds more "NPD" than aspie. There are aspies who are NPD...

You actually may have some autistic or ADD characteristics. (Please do not be offended by this).

In my experience NPDers tend to be highly attracted to ADDers and Aspies... We are easier to control.


Anyway p-docs often get NPD and Asperger's confused on first blush... so it would make sense that you might as well.

read this: http://samvak.tripod.com/

See if it makes sense to you....