Aspies For Freedom

From the article:quote:"In children, some of these traits can still be seen as charming. In Hans Asperger's time, it was called the "little professor" syndrome, for example, which implies a certain cuteness. "

Much more than cute and charming I think. The "little professor" Aspergers gift of obsession got one of my kids into the gifted and talented stream at school in grade 1.

quote:"It also differs from regular autism in that Aspies usually crave social interaction and are astute enough to notice -- and rue -- their inability to secure it. "

I can't help stating the obvious fact that this is total bull@#$% in many, if not most, cases of AS. Oh boo hoo hoo, wont anyone interact with me?  :cry:  :lol:

quote:"Before I got a diagnosis, even I thought I was crazy," said one man attending a Middlesex support group. "I thought I was weird, strange. And I didn't know why."


I don't know any aspie IRL who thinks they are crazy.

quote:" "Words are their lifeline. They talk before they walk," said Fred Volkmar, a child psychiatrist at the Yale Child Study Center and co-editor of "Asperger Syndrome" (Guilford Publications, $55)."

Except if they are the HFA kind of aspie (aren't the two things the same??), in which case they might not start talking for a number of years after they walk, but who cares about little details like that when you are a famous expert.

quote:"In the last decade, diagnosis of school-aged children has become commonplace; rare is the school district untouched by Asperger's. That first wave of Aspies is just now entering young adulthood, having reaped the benefit of everything from occupational therapy to social-skills training.

They will most likely have sunnier futures than today's older Asperger adults, some of whom weren't diagnosed until well into middle age, say experts. "We know for autism that early diagnosis can lead to significant improvement for them, and there's every reason to believe the same will be true for Asperger's," Volkmar said. "

Then how come we read so many very sad stories posted by the younger set on the AS discussion fora, while I am very glad I am too old to have been labelled?

I think the "expert" forgot to mention that there is bugger-all credible scientific evidence that early interventions such as ABA actually work http://www.cochrane.org/cochrane/revabstr/AB003496.htm

I admit I didn't read the whole article, as although it made a couple of valid points, it seemed on the whole to be a torrent of bull@#$%.

Amy wrote

My experiences were similar in many respects, but I never thought I was crazy. I knew I was not very good at social type stuff, but I did not think that weird because everyone has things that they are not good at doing.

Personally I find this article quite informative, and much of it, positive. What I object to is being called 'ill'. All the talk of 'lifelong' illness, and wanting to find a cure etc. really, really bothers me. That's why I would never want my husband to read this article as it now stands, because it would reinforce the way he thinks. He can't get it into his head that I am just different, and don't need to be cured of AS, that in fact if I was 'cured' of AS, I would not be me any more, but a totally different person.

And those words at the beginning? They are just there to catch people's interest. And that is precisely what I was called by my mother, classmates and many others.

Lili Marlene, I actually thought many times that maybe I am crazy. Especially because my mother got more and more insane as she got older. Finding out about AS and TS helped me finally realize that I am in fact quite sane. If you have been told for more than 50 years that you are weird and unacceptable, and people having tried to make you more 'normal', you tend to sometimes doubt your own sanity.

And I always dreamed of having friends and of fitting in, but also knew I was unable to do so. I never knew why. Just in recent years I have found some friends that will stick with me no matter what. And who don't care that I am different, even though all of them are NTs (but some are decidedly 'odd' in some ways).

My sister is unable to hold any meaningful job for more than a year. But she is an expert at buying and selling at eBay! That is her hobby, and that is all she talks about. How she managed to buy something dirt cheap, and turned around and sold it for ten times what she paid. Or how she managed to get that cherished doll for a niece for a fraction of what it was worth. She bores everyone to tears with it. But when they (my siblings in Germany) need something specific, they'll ask her to find it. She got a fabulous set of bunk beds for one brother for his kids (solid wood and beautiful) for a song (not literally).

When I was still in Germany, I was no better when it came to jobs. I never had to work outside the home here in Canada, and just recently took a babysitting job for our church secretary. I babysit her two little boys three days a week. But by Thursday afternoon I am done for, and it takes me until the next Tuesday to recover. Even though those little guys are the sweetest, most easy going children you'd want to find.

On the other hand, two of my three Aspie brothers have great jobs, and had never any trouble holding a job for many, many years, and only switch employers if THEY want to, not because their employer fires them.

I think my sister and I would be doing much better if we would have had some help as children (and I DON'T mean medication, I totally disagree with medicating children with AS). Some social skills training, for instance, would have been very helpful. Maybe I wouldn't have been so clueless then, and wouldn't have had to endure the horrendous mobbing, which drove me to the brink of suicide many times.

Uschi

Bonnie, you are right in saying that if they would have used insults targeted at another minority group would have likely caused an uproar. In fact, the writer would have been sued, and be sentenced to 'sensitivity training'. So, I guess I am so used to these 'names', that I have become insensitive to them.

The problem with social skills training is, that you don't get it (or at least it's not funded by the government, and we were extremely poor) unless you are officially diagnosed with something like AS. And of course in those days, NOBODY was diagnosed. So, all the Aspies my age have suffered from mobbing, not fitting in, and not having a clue why they had all the problems. And we got no help at all.

My mother told me 23 years ago, that she was especially mean to me (purposely) to 'cure' me of my hypersensitivity. Of course, all she achieved was, that I became suicidal (I don't believe she knew), and learned to hide my feelings altogether. I stopped trusting her and told her nothing. It's very lonely, not trusting your own mother (and subsequently not trusting ANYBODY any more, for 38  years). I am still learning to trust people again, and find it very hard.

Ursula

Thanks for the hug! The link doesn't work, could you try posting it again? You can try if a link works when you preview your post, I usually do that to be sure.

Uschi

Thanks, Bonnie, this new link works (and strangely, the other one now works, too).

Have you read through this site? I have, and they say that children with parents with AS are abused children, because parents with AS are unfit parents.

I disagree with a lot there, I always hugged and kissed and cuddled my kids when they were small. True, I talk with little kids like I talk with adults (no dumbed down language), but I don't talk to them about adult issues, or talk to them about special interests they are too young to understand. And I WILL  explain words they don't understand to them.

I am always standing between the kids and their (NT) father, because otherwise they will be too harshly treated. Unfortunately, of course they have witnessed meltdowns, and angry outbursts. But I don't think any more than they would get from many NT parents.

My four older kids couldn't have sleep-overs or friends over for the most part, when they were young. But after I had counseling for depression, my youngest daughter is able to have friends over frequently, and even has somebody sleeping over here once every two or three weeks. So, the problem with that was depression, not the AS.

If more groups like that spring up, and they manage to influence the government and courts, many kids will be taken away from AS diagnosed parents in the future. I am only glad none of my kids have inherited the AS, because those problems won't affect them.

And no, my kids didn't end up 'parenting' me (even though I was parenting, together with my older brother our five younger brothers and younger sister, because both my parents were unfit parents). Now that my four older kids are grown up, they will often give me advice on what to wear, or how to behave etc. But when they were younger (under 18 or so), I was definitely the mother who took care of them.

Anyway, I guess I am a little upset over this site.

Ursula

The idea that aspie parents must necessarily be unfit parents makes me FUME, because my husband and I firmly believe that we are better parents than most NT parents.

Why? Because we give our children our time (which NT parents spend socialising with other NT adults), and we provide our children with an intellectually stimulating home environment. We take our kids to the library, museums or other educational activities at least once a fortnight, and we provide our kids with educational toys and scientific equipment and quality non-fiction books. Last night my husband and I briefly discussed the big bang theory with one of our kids who has chosen to do this as a lower primary school project. I don't know much about it but today I photocopied a diagram of the different cosmological theories from the Einstein special ed of Scientific American magazine for my child to study.

We have never subjected our kids to the horrors of separation, divorce, drunkeness or drug abuse, as most NT parents have. We don't keep marijhuana paraphernalia in the home and expect our kids to keep quiet about it, as many Australian NT parents do.

I am a member if the minority of mothers who breast fed their babies exclusively for their first 4-6 months, then continued with solids for the entire period that the authorities recommend breast-feeding for infants (to one year of age). We have not put our kids in childcare except on the rare occasion.

I have a close relationship with my kids, and I also find that their little friends talk to me as though they are talking with one of their peers. I feel honoured.

I do believe that there can be great uncompatibilities between NT and AS family members that can result in children feeling unsupported by parents. Looking back I judge my own parents as having done a negligent job of raising me, but interestingly my NT sibling (who did well in school and a career) has a quite different positive judgement of our parents. I know an NT offspring of an AS parent who simply loathes and pities their parent (and the feeling is reciprocated I think), while their AS sibling has no time for the NT parent in that family.

I have probably alienated many parents by sounding judgemental about the parenting styles of others, but I think that is fair enough as people with AS are judged for our harmless differences all the time.

I just can't believe the hypocrisy of NTs who accuse others of being bad parents.

BG wrote

I'm not sure what or who you are asking here.

Anbuend wrote

I will certainly give it serious consideration, and discuss the idea with others, after I have had a good look at this website. I'm flattered that you asked.

A website that presents the positive cotribution of autistic parents is a thing that is desperately needed, as there are so many unfounded and dangerous generalisations about our parenting that are currently circulating.

A while ago I listened to an adult daughter of an aspie woman (who was not interviewed) recounting her mother and childhood, on the ABC Radio National programme "Life Matters". I got the impression that the interviewer was prompting the woman to tell how damaged she was from the experience, but I don't think she really "took the bait". The interviewer used her best "I'm so concerned and sympathetic" voice for the interview.

Blackjack, do you know any NT parents who have not separated, divorced, been drunk in front of their kids or used illicit drugs, such as marijhuana, in front of their kids?

I can only think of two NT couples who I know IRL who maybe have not done any of those things. Perhaps I would know more clean-living NT parents if I was part of a religious community. I think the parents who I know IRL are pretty representative of the Australian middle and working classes.

Lili Marlene, I know many, many NT couple who are neither divorced, get drunk, take drugs etc. All my friends (well, except one) are NTs, and they all are great parents. Of course, all my friends are Christians.

Uschi

Bonnie, the article is definitely a good one, and worth reading. But of course, being a typical aspie, I went and read everything else on the site that is accessible to non-members!

I know you didn't mean to upset me, and in fact I am glad I read everything I did. I had never heard before that there are people who consider themselves damaged because of their AS parents. It made me think. And I now realize that I had a terrible childhood because my father was an aspie (a gentle man, but didn't know how to help raise kids, I loved him, and loved being with him), who needed a mother more than a wife. And my mother was suffering from severe depression (actually, they both did), fibromyalgia, I believe she had Tourette Syndrome, and probably some AS traits as well. They were totally unfit parents. And to think that they raised FIVE aspies (or really, my brother and I raised the other three aspies, and the NTs as well). And when I look at all my siblings, it's the aspies that are still suffering from the aftereffects of the abuse, the NTs appear to be fine.

But because SOME aspie parents are terrible parents shouldn't mean that all of them are! Otherwise we could also say that because there are NT parents who are abusive and cold, they are ALL that way.

No matter where you look, what culture, race, background etc., you will find a percentage of unfit parents. So, it should come as no surprise that some aspies are terrible parents. But for these people to now claim that ALL aspie parents are unfit parents is simply unfair and untrue.

But now I feel sort of unsure of how good a mother I am. I sent my oldest daughter an e-mail with the link to the site, and asked her if she suffered because of me. I need to know. What I read made me doubt myself I guess, because of course, I have no idea how they kids really view me. One thing I do know, that I always put my babies first, when they were little and helpless. And I knew exactly what they needed (one reason being that I raised younger siblings, I guess).

Ursula

Bonnie, don't feel bad. It's good to be exposed to this sort of thinking. Knowing what people think of us is better than sticking our heads in the sand and to pretend everybody thinks we are great people. How can you defend yourself if you don't know what is being said?

Mind you, nobody would dare say that blind people are bad parents, because they can't see the expression on their kid's faces, or deaf people are unfit because they won't hear their children cry and come running immediately. Somehow it seems acceptable to say discriminatory things about aspies, that those people wouldn't say about parents with other disabilities (not that I really think I am disabled, but others claim I am, I guess) for fear of lawsuits.

And you know, sooner or later I was bound to find this website anyway, because I am still doing research on AS. So, no need to apologize.

Ursula

Bonnie Ventura wrote

In my kids's primary school there is a school-wide organised programme that aims to make kids think about how they treat and react to others before they act, which I regard as being social skills training. I think it is a very good idea, but I doubt its effectiveness. I know it does not work on individual cases of kids who are really bad, but I hope the idea is developed, for the benefit of all kids, not just a small labelled group.

The schools also have organised anti-bullying programmes, which is also a great idea, but I wonder if it is effective against adult bullies, such as teachers who are nasty to individual students. I was once asked to fill in a questionnaire for the school about stuff such as "Do your kids feel welcome in the school" and "Is there bullying?" etc.


Uschi wrote

I agree with your point, but I don't understand why there is so much concern about parents being "cold and abusive" while there are so many cheerful, absent and neglectful parents out there endangering the health and safety of their kids.


Blackjack G wrote

Blackjack, do you live in an Amish community?

HI Sjo
I dont think that is what she is saying. In fact the way I took it I had to agree with her.  I tell you what I mean. I attended a few parent meetings. One of their major complaints is the lack or (most of the time) few freinds their child has. I remember when I was young. I did not have friends many times, but when I did it was at most 4 in high schooll. (all from chess club). I NEVER really felt deprived of friends. It was sufficient 1 or 2 at a time. I have seen parents literally bemoaning and crying  because their child has only 1 or 2 freinds.  They somtimes even add how their child doesnt seem to mind as well. I tell them for me it was sufficient and OK. They ignore me with kindness.  I dont think aspies require the ciricle of freinds in the same number as NTs.